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Slightly off topic, but playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey brought out an infatuation with Greece within me. I am truly envious of your Greek heritage and that yo

Slightly off topic, but playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey brought out an infatuation with Greece within me. I am truly envious of your Greek heritage and that you get to enjoy such a rich history, a relatively secular society, and gorgeous scenic areas. I am actually Persian and although we also have a rich history and scenic lands, I find Greece and Greek history far more appealing. Getting to explore many facets of ancient Greece in Assassin's Creed Odyssey has been an absolute treat. EDIT: a word

elorant 7y ago
Well heritage is a double edged sword. From one hand you do feel proud and blessed to live in a place so rich in history because it's everywhere around you. But in the same time it's kind of a burden that drags society in worshiping the past. A lot of fellow Greeks live on the premises that because our past was so glorious everyone else is dipshit and we shouldn't even bother finding our place in the modern world.
- carlob 7y ago
  Well said! I would also like to add that history is also (in part) a construct of the times you live in. Greece post-1830 looks back at the ancient times while all but forgetting the centuries of Ottoman rule that also shaped the current culture (especially cuisine). Bulgaria, while having a similar history (the Thracians instead of the Greek and Macedonians, also Orthodox, also Ottoman) prefer to trace their mythical history back to the Bulgarians of the Volga rather than calling ancient Thracia the cradle of Western Civilization. I'm from Italy and here we are taught a linear history shooting like a bullet from the Romans to Renaissance (mostly glossing over the Middle Ages), and that has important political consequences in what it means to identify as an Italian. In other words one can say that history, as it is taught in school, is instrumental in constructing a national identity and as such it is wielded as a tool by the political and cultural élites.
  - Bayart 7y ago
    >I'm from Italy and here we are taught a linear history shooting like a bullet from the Romans to Renaissance (mostly glossing over the Middle Ages), and that has important political consequences in what it means to identify as an Italian. As a Frenchman I have always found Italians identifying so strongly to Romans a bit creepy. I've had very heated conversations with people who wouldn't balk from the notion that « they » had conquered Europe at a time « we » lived in trees (notwithstanding Gaul having cities upwards of 40k inhabitants). Italy hasn't been Roman for much longer than Spain or Gaul and the entire peninsula nearly had a civilization « hard reset » with the utter ravage of the Gothic wars and Justinian's plague. Things might have been simpler if we had kept the medieval demonym and referred to Italians as « Lombards ».
    - carlob 7y ago
      And most French I know have this weird notion they somehow won WWII because the true French government was in London ;)
      - S4M 7y ago
        I am French and I don't think that at all, nor do I know anybody who thinks like that.
        carlob 7y ago
        First of all there is a winky face in my message, it's interesting how a message in jest can trigger nationalistic sentiments (downvotes in this case). In all seriousness though, the 8th of May is still celebrated with victory parades throughout the country. You can't just deny France also has some trouble remembering their history. Think of how long Kubrick's Paths of Glory was banned...
        S4M 7y ago
        First, I am not the one who downvoted you. My reply was more about giving an anecdote countering yours, than being a nationalist. About France remembering its history, it's true that for a long time some things were hidden, but in 1995 (I think) the then President Jacques Chirac said that France should own the crimes commited by the Vichy government. I am not saying that every bad deed done by France is not hidden somewhere, but some efforts were made by the French to reconcile with their history.
- ben_w 7y ago
  Mmm. I’ve only seen one country that doesn’t collectively see its history with gold-tinted glasses — yet even here, there are people like my landlord, who has told me he didn’t understand why the DDR fell despite being a student in it.
  - AftHurrahWinch 7y ago
    Having conversations with people in South Africa, Ghana, and Rwanda about their country's history felt a lot like talking to Germans. Lots of nuance.
  - klyrs 7y ago
    Kinda depends who you talk to. For many americans, the slave trade and genocide of indigenous peoples are key, and embarrassing, chapters of our history. American children are taught very differently, largely according to the ruling party in their state. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/12/us/texas-vs-california-history-textbooks.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/12/us/texas-vs-c...
DictumMortuum 7y ago
Don't feel envy about such generalities. To give you an example, my hero and fellow Athenian, Socrates, was killed by his own people. DNA doesn't matter. How you choose to live your life does.
- throwaway8879 7y ago
  Nitpick. Socrates was given a choice. His decision to kill himself was his own. I'd probably do the same. He was 70+ anyway. A lifetime of annoying dialectic tends to make lots of enemies quickly.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    What was the choice? Wasn’t he sentenced to death?
    - namenotrequired 7y ago
      They sentenced him to death to force him to leave the city. No one expected him to decide to die rather than leave.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        I thought they literally sentenced him to death, and he had the opportunity to escape but refused to take it?
        namenotrequired 7y ago
        Yes! The point is that everyone, friends and enemies, wanted and expected him to take it.
  - DictumMortuum 7y ago
    You are right. My point was that there is nothing magical in Greek ancestry, but a mixture of great and stupid individuals, as in all societies.

elorant 7y ago

Well heritage is a double edged sword. From one hand you do feel proud and blessed to live in a place so rich in history because it's everywhere around you. But in the same time it's kind of a burden that drags society in worshiping the past. A lot of fellow Greeks live on the premises that because our past was so glorious everyone else is dipshit and we shouldn't even bother finding our place in the modern world.

carlob 7y ago
Well said! I would also like to add that history is also (in part) a construct of the times you live in. Greece post-1830 looks back at the ancient times while all but forgetting the centuries of Ottoman rule that also shaped the current culture (especially cuisine). Bulgaria, while having a similar history (the Thracians instead of the Greek and Macedonians, also Orthodox, also Ottoman) prefer to trace their mythical history back to the Bulgarians of the Volga rather than calling ancient Thracia the cradle of Western Civilization. I'm from Italy and here we are taught a linear history shooting like a bullet from the Romans to Renaissance (mostly glossing over the Middle Ages), and that has important political consequences in what it means to identify as an Italian. In other words one can say that history, as it is taught in school, is instrumental in constructing a national identity and as such it is wielded as a tool by the political and cultural élites.
- Bayart 7y ago
  >I'm from Italy and here we are taught a linear history shooting like a bullet from the Romans to Renaissance (mostly glossing over the Middle Ages), and that has important political consequences in what it means to identify as an Italian. As a Frenchman I have always found Italians identifying so strongly to Romans a bit creepy. I've had very heated conversations with people who wouldn't balk from the notion that « they » had conquered Europe at a time « we » lived in trees (notwithstanding Gaul having cities upwards of 40k inhabitants). Italy hasn't been Roman for much longer than Spain or Gaul and the entire peninsula nearly had a civilization « hard reset » with the utter ravage of the Gothic wars and Justinian's plague. Things might have been simpler if we had kept the medieval demonym and referred to Italians as « Lombards ».
  - carlob 7y ago
    And most French I know have this weird notion they somehow won WWII because the true French government was in London ;)
    - S4M 7y ago
      I am French and I don't think that at all, nor do I know anybody who thinks like that.
      - carlob 7y ago
        First of all there is a winky face in my message, it's interesting how a message in jest can trigger nationalistic sentiments (downvotes in this case). In all seriousness though, the 8th of May is still celebrated with victory parades throughout the country. You can't just deny France also has some trouble remembering their history. Think of how long Kubrick's Paths of Glory was banned...
        S4M 7y ago
        First, I am not the one who downvoted you. My reply was more about giving an anecdote countering yours, than being a nationalist. About France remembering its history, it's true that for a long time some things were hidden, but in 1995 (I think) the then President Jacques Chirac said that France should own the crimes commited by the Vichy government. I am not saying that every bad deed done by France is not hidden somewhere, but some efforts were made by the French to reconcile with their history.
ben_w 7y ago
Mmm. I’ve only seen one country that doesn’t collectively see its history with gold-tinted glasses — yet even here, there are people like my landlord, who has told me he didn’t understand why the DDR fell despite being a student in it.
- AftHurrahWinch 7y ago
  Having conversations with people in South Africa, Ghana, and Rwanda about their country's history felt a lot like talking to Germans. Lots of nuance.
- klyrs 7y ago
  Kinda depends who you talk to. For many americans, the slave trade and genocide of indigenous peoples are key, and embarrassing, chapters of our history. American children are taught very differently, largely according to the ruling party in their state. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/12/us/texas-vs-california-history-textbooks.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/12/us/texas-vs-c...

DictumMortuum 7y ago

Don't feel envy about such generalities. To give you an example, my hero and fellow Athenian, Socrates, was killed by his own people. DNA doesn't matter. How you choose to live your life does.

throwaway8879 7y ago
Nitpick. Socrates was given a choice. His decision to kill himself was his own. I'd probably do the same. He was 70+ anyway. A lifetime of annoying dialectic tends to make lots of enemies quickly.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  What was the choice? Wasn’t he sentenced to death?
  - namenotrequired 7y ago
    They sentenced him to death to force him to leave the city. No one expected him to decide to die rather than leave.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      I thought they literally sentenced him to death, and he had the opportunity to escape but refused to take it?
      - namenotrequired 7y ago
        Yes! The point is that everyone, friends and enemies, wanted and expected him to take it.
- DictumMortuum 7y ago
  You are right. My point was that there is nothing magical in Greek ancestry, but a mixture of great and stupid individuals, as in all societies.