4 ms·

The headline misses the point. The total means nothing out of context. What's the fee per loan? >Loans worth less than $350,000 brought in 5% in fees while lo

The headline misses the point. The total means nothing out of context. What's the fee per loan? >Loans worth less than $350,000 brought in 5% in fees while loans worth anywhere from $2 million to $10 million brought in 1% in fees. I've read that the average loan is $50K, so that's $2500 per loan, which seems high, And 1% of a $1millio loan is ridiculous, as it's not subsidizing the smaller loans, AND these loans are scaled to #employees, so the size of the loan is proportional to the #people benefited and so the fees should be per loan (cost based), not per $ lent.

lmeyerov 6y ago
The root problem was Trump team didn't put in enough money, included too many rich businesses, and didn't require a fair order. Banks knew they didn't have enough meat yet were feeding a frenzy: of course the big dogs pushed through to the front. So now we blame Banks instead of Trump. Yet if Trump repeats the plan without prioritizing actual small businesses, the co's big enough for in-house accountants and big loan relationships will keep getting the lion's share.
- beervirus 6y ago
  > Trump team didn't put in enough money You know, the president doesn't write legislation or appropriate money. That's on Congress.
  - lmeyerov 6y ago
    Yes, because we know exactly where the buck doesn't stop. They're getting ready for round 2, and if the rule setters do the same thing, we'll get the same result. People want to blame the banks -- and banks share the blame -- but they are not the root cause. The legislated rules are like physics, you don't get mad at the water flowing wrong but at the people who planned the river. The planning committee is doing all sorts of weird stuff, but the people with the most control is republicans, and via veto etc, the president. Those are the people deciding to whom the river flows and with how much water. They knew there would be more applicants than money, and the bigger applicants would have accountants and bank managers ready to leap, yet they still didn't put any priority order in for small businesses. Instead, they spent that time putting in carveouts for big hotel owners. If you think they didn't make it fair, it's their blame. I don't even know why we're doing this via banks to beginwith, that just adds a massive & confusing middle layer of uninvolved for-profit companies. Feels like not knowing how to use the system, or corruption... which is again, a problem upstream.
    - beervirus 6y ago
      Saying that Trump is to blame for the implementation details because he has the veto power is a little silly. Congress, on both sides of the aisle, has responsibility for any flaws in the legislation.
      - lmeyerov 6y ago
        He's the president, if he cared, he'd prioritize SMBs. He's the check and balance. Instead, congress, judicial, and executive are now all effectively Republican controlled, with Trump de-facto leading the party because McConnell decided to go with it. Trump can pass the buck during one of the biggest losses of life in US history & the biggest recessions, but as the ultimate elected check, no way should we give a free pass. He should do his job, leave, or get the blame. Anyways, this has gotten beyond HN. As an SMB owner, it's pretty clear what is and isn't happening.
        beervirus 6y ago
        Yeah it’s pretty clear that the president is responsible for legislative drafting. :-/
        lmeyerov 6y ago
        He's the shepherd, or not, if he declines to do his job. We elect the president to preside. The pandemic has become the most important thing on his desk. The power relationship is more complicated, but that's what it boils down to. For example, congress could take it in a direction he doesn't want to happen, but they'd need 2/3rds for that. By default, it's his show.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Saying that Trump is to blame for the implementation details because he has the veto power is a little silly. Only in that it's silly to ignore that he's to blame for the implementation details since implementation details are pretty much what the Executive branch does.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > You know, the president doesn't write legislation The President is the most powerful single actor in setting the content of legislation. > That's on Congress In the parliamentary system, that would be obviously true; the US has a strong presidential system, making that far less true.
- lmeyerov 6y ago
  People really didn't like that comment. Imagine your boss was running this program. You're in a regulated industry, so he's forced to ask another team to pick the budget and the basic design... though the majority are actually his guys. His job is to keep sending it back with fixes until he's confident enough to put his name on it. It's just a design, so his job then switches to putting together the team to run the project and then actually running it. The first project ended up giving the wrong people tons of money and then running out of funds. He's free to propose something else, but if he doesn't have any real ideas, the board tells him to try to at least get this right. He's seen what other orgs have done, but rather try this again..
travisporter 6y ago
In an ideal world applicants should be able to shop around and get the lowest rate. Is this not happening due to the rush of just getting in the application?

lmeyerov 6y ago

The root problem was Trump team didn't put in enough money, included too many rich businesses, and didn't require a fair order. Banks knew they didn't have enough meat yet were feeding a frenzy: of course the big dogs pushed through to the front. So now we blame Banks instead of Trump. Yet if Trump repeats the plan without prioritizing actual small businesses, the co's big enough for in-house accountants and big loan relationships will keep getting the lion's share.

beervirus 6y ago
> Trump team didn't put in enough money You know, the president doesn't write legislation or appropriate money. That's on Congress.
- lmeyerov 6y ago
  Yes, because we know exactly where the buck doesn't stop. They're getting ready for round 2, and if the rule setters do the same thing, we'll get the same result. People want to blame the banks -- and banks share the blame -- but they are not the root cause. The legislated rules are like physics, you don't get mad at the water flowing wrong but at the people who planned the river. The planning committee is doing all sorts of weird stuff, but the people with the most control is republicans, and via veto etc, the president. Those are the people deciding to whom the river flows and with how much water. They knew there would be more applicants than money, and the bigger applicants would have accountants and bank managers ready to leap, yet they still didn't put any priority order in for small businesses. Instead, they spent that time putting in carveouts for big hotel owners. If you think they didn't make it fair, it's their blame. I don't even know why we're doing this via banks to beginwith, that just adds a massive & confusing middle layer of uninvolved for-profit companies. Feels like not knowing how to use the system, or corruption... which is again, a problem upstream.
  - beervirus 6y ago
    Saying that Trump is to blame for the implementation details because he has the veto power is a little silly. Congress, on both sides of the aisle, has responsibility for any flaws in the legislation.
    - lmeyerov 6y ago
      He's the president, if he cared, he'd prioritize SMBs. He's the check and balance. Instead, congress, judicial, and executive are now all effectively Republican controlled, with Trump de-facto leading the party because McConnell decided to go with it. Trump can pass the buck during one of the biggest losses of life in US history & the biggest recessions, but as the ultimate elected check, no way should we give a free pass. He should do his job, leave, or get the blame. Anyways, this has gotten beyond HN. As an SMB owner, it's pretty clear what is and isn't happening.
      - beervirus 6y ago
        Yeah it’s pretty clear that the president is responsible for legislative drafting. :-/
        lmeyerov 6y ago
        He's the shepherd, or not, if he declines to do his job. We elect the president to preside. The pandemic has become the most important thing on his desk. The power relationship is more complicated, but that's what it boils down to. For example, congress could take it in a direction he doesn't want to happen, but they'd need 2/3rds for that. By default, it's his show.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Saying that Trump is to blame for the implementation details because he has the veto power is a little silly. Only in that it's silly to ignore that he's to blame for the implementation details since implementation details are pretty much what the Executive branch does.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > You know, the president doesn't write legislation The President is the most powerful single actor in setting the content of legislation. > That's on Congress In the parliamentary system, that would be obviously true; the US has a strong presidential system, making that far less true.
lmeyerov 6y ago
People really didn't like that comment. Imagine your boss was running this program. You're in a regulated industry, so he's forced to ask another team to pick the budget and the basic design... though the majority are actually his guys. His job is to keep sending it back with fixes until he's confident enough to put his name on it. It's just a design, so his job then switches to putting together the team to run the project and then actually running it. The first project ended up giving the wrong people tons of money and then running out of funds. He's free to propose something else, but if he doesn't have any real ideas, the board tells him to try to at least get this right. He's seen what other orgs have done, but rather try this again..

travisporter 6y ago

In an ideal world applicants should be able to shop around and get the lowest rate. Is this not happening due to the rush of just getting in the application?