8 ms·

There have been suggestions over the years for the post office to offer banking services. They have branches literally everywhere, they're independent yet still

There have been suggestions over the years for the post office to offer banking services. They have branches literally everywhere, they're independent yet still a government agency, and have no profit motive.

alexpetralia 6y ago
I could not imagine the amount of financial, operational, technological and regulatory infrastructure that would need to be ported over, however.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  We have the US Digital Service [1] and 18F [2]. We (US citizens) should demand Congress to provide them the authority to deliver the modernization required to implement such infrastructure. Use Login.gov [3] to provide for digital identity management of these accounts. Perform in person KYC using USPS and DHS/CBP branches, and identity proofing online using traditional service providers (IRS already does this for your IRS account, SSA might, I haven't checked recently). The path to success is straightforward. EDIT: So I did some digging, and it appears that the US Treasury has partnered with Comerica Bank in Texas to provide this sort of service to Social Security benefit recipients [4] (because the Treasury requires electronic payment of social security benefits, and you can't leave seniors unbanked). The challenge is going to be to find Congressional reps supportive of bringing this functionality in house, which isn't unreasonable IMHO, to provide this as a utility to all US citizens. I have already fired off a FOIA request to get details on the contract between Treasury and Comerica. [1] https://www.usds.gov/ https://www.usds.gov/ | [2] https://18f.gsa.gov/ https://18f.gsa.gov/ | [3] https://login.gov/ https://login.gov/ [4] https://www.usdirectexpress.com/ https://www.usdirectexpress.com/
  - basch 6y ago
    Would it be feasable for the government to acquire a mobile first bank and graft it onto the post office? Either chime, bankmobile, moven, or simple. Is it a space the government wants to compete against Apple and Google? If every mobile phone in the country comes with a free integrated banking service, how do you compete? Would the government better serve by using its resources to regulate interoperability and compatibility, and rule following, than by competing? I totally get why a free post office bank would do great things to serve the underbanked. But if the government is going to get into banking, id like to see it go a step further, more like Singapore, and be some kind of new HSA type account offering, a forced savings account that can be used to pay rent and more.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      It's not politically feasible. The Republicans have been trying to kill off the USPS for decades now, and would torpedo any effort to expand it's scope in a way that that the USPS might be competent at.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Right, you need more reps who support protecting and expanding public goods like the USPS, regardless of political affiliation.
- Etheryte 6y ago
  I think the problem really isn't as complicated as that list might make it seem. In my home country (EU), local shops offer basic banking services (withdraw, deposit money) in rural areas where banks have no incentive to have a branch. They're already integrated into the wider cash flow system, money is moved to and from the locations securely regularly, etc. Postal offices would tick all those boxes as well with the additional contextual benefit of being government-run.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  It's not that hard. Just assume control of some bankrupt bank or even contract out the backend, and put terminals in post offices. When Bank of America merged with a few others, they actually operated several of the old banks at once for awhile. Medicare uses the latter model for claims processing -- big insurance companies bid on processing, subrogation, etc.
- specialist 6y ago
  Not commercial banks. Above examples are just passbook (personal) savings and misc services. Super simple. Though I'd be open minded towards some overlap with credit unions.
- grecy 6y ago
  There are plenty of comments in this very thread that give examples of many other countries already doing it, including countries that have way lower GDP/Person than the US. Are you saying the US is incapable of doing what is already being done in many other countries?
  - thephyber 6y ago
    > Are you saying the US is incapable of doing what is already being done in many other countries? "Incapable" assumes lots of things, but practically speaking the number of things that we (the USA) "are capable of doing" is shrinking and using GDP/Person is an interesting way to illustrate the point. We are overpaying for services that other countries have managed to solve for reasonable costs. University tuition, healthcare, building infrastructure are all ridiculously expensive in the USA, so our higher GDP/Person is largely wasted compared to most other OECD countries. Our government and the crooked ethical guidelines of our companies/organizations are why this overpricing started and continues to exist. For those tasks which require regulatory/legal changes, the USA is swimming in peanut butter. What we "are capable of doing" largely has to do with our Legislature+Executive branches ability to find ways to make productive changes (rare) without sabotaging those same efforts (even rarer). But half of those people are rowing in one direction (team red) and the other half in another (team blue). The USA's primary policy tool is "make the most visible spectacle of brinksmanship" and has been for 10+ years. The people/companies in the USA are capable of feature parity with just about any other country's people/companies, but that assumes that our government either doesn't get in the way or their government doesn't assist them.
user5994461 6y ago
Are you talking about the US post office? The post office in France already offer banking. It's mandated by law as a public service and they can't reject customers. It doesn't offer the more complex products or investments though, it ain't their purpose. Not sure about the UK post office. Seem to offer a lot of banking services and cards, but it says it doesn't do current accounts anymore.
- jonny_eh 6y ago
  Yes, the article was about the US.
- dboreham 6y ago
  The UK Post Office did offer banking. Not sure if it survived Thatcher..
  - Milner08 6y ago
    They offer some things now (deposits, travel cards, etc), but I am not sure they offer actual accounts anymore.
    - jermaustin1 6y ago
      According to their website, they still offer almost everything a traditional bank does. Including personal loans, and mortgages [1]. 1: https://www.postoffice.co.uk/money https://www.postoffice.co.uk/money
      - makomk 6y ago
        A lot of that is just rebranding of services offered by one of the normal, traditional banks though.
- notJim 6y ago
  > they can't reject customers This would be a huge thing in the US, where poor people cannot get bank accounts, and end up needing to use predatory paycheck cashing providers who take huge fees instead.
Bombthecat 6y ago
Germany did that (post bank) didn't want so well...
- pstrateman 6y ago
  What went wrong?
  - joering2 6y ago
    Something must have gone wrong. I know for fact that in Poland you can bank at post office at least since 90s. Its still common think for seniors to have no bank account because there is no need to. They typically get pension in form of a government check that they cash at "Poczta Polska" and then use cash to shop. Post office also pays all the bills, utilities etc, so long as you know corporation/receipient bank number.
  - allendoerfer 6y ago
    Nothing. It got privatized and is currently owned by Deutsche Bank.
    - Talanes 6y ago
      It's not nothing if it was privatized. Either something went wrong to drive privatization, or nothing was going wrong to begin with and then privatization was what went wrong.
      - allendoerfer 6y ago
        Postbank got privatized, because in the 90s everything got privatized. It is used today by Deutsche Bank to target its private customers. It is not one of the fintechs but generally able to compete in that market.
- yardie 6y ago
  Post Bank formed from Deutsche Bank. Which was made infamous for loaning Donald Trump loads of money on highly questionable terms.
slezyr 6y ago
In Ukraine we used mail mans to deliver pensions, that was horrible for them. Almost every year they were assaults in which they died. They represent a simple target as they don't have means to protect themselves.
- sova 6y ago
  Cash delivery?
  - slezyr 6y ago
    Yes, direct to the person at the post office and between the cities.
Betelgeuse90 6y ago
There's a postal service bank in Israel as well. Lots of people use it, it's a fine service. They also offer fantastic foreign exchange rates, pretty much the best I think.
anonAndOn 6y ago
I believe Japan Post offers(ed?) this service. They had the best FX exchange rates, as well.
igravious 6y ago
We have this in Ireland! https://www.anpost.com/Money https://www.anpost.com/Money
thephyber 6y ago
The USPS used to run limited banking services[1] in the 20th century. It was largely obsolete by the 1960s (according to the Wiki article). It's also important to note that the USPS is required to be self-sufficient in its purse strings, but is heavily restricted in what markets it can/can't be in by Congress. I think the "privatize everything" crowd of legislators/lobbyists see the USPS in banking as an existential threat to private banks profit margins and it won't happen without a political black swan (maybe not even in the current black swan environment). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings_S...
bostonvaulter2 6y ago
This was one of Andrew Yang's policy proposals in his presidential bid (and it was one of my favorites). Looks like a bunch of other countries already do it as well.

alexpetralia 6y ago

I could not imagine the amount of financial, operational, technological and regulatory infrastructure that would need to be ported over, however.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
We have the US Digital Service [1] and 18F [2]. We (US citizens) should demand Congress to provide them the authority to deliver the modernization required to implement such infrastructure. Use Login.gov [3] to provide for digital identity management of these accounts. Perform in person KYC using USPS and DHS/CBP branches, and identity proofing online using traditional service providers (IRS already does this for your IRS account, SSA might, I haven't checked recently). The path to success is straightforward. EDIT: So I did some digging, and it appears that the US Treasury has partnered with Comerica Bank in Texas to provide this sort of service to Social Security benefit recipients [4] (because the Treasury requires electronic payment of social security benefits, and you can't leave seniors unbanked). The challenge is going to be to find Congressional reps supportive of bringing this functionality in house, which isn't unreasonable IMHO, to provide this as a utility to all US citizens. I have already fired off a FOIA request to get details on the contract between Treasury and Comerica. [1] https://www.usds.gov/ https://www.usds.gov/ | [2] https://18f.gsa.gov/ https://18f.gsa.gov/ | [3] https://login.gov/ https://login.gov/ [4] https://www.usdirectexpress.com/ https://www.usdirectexpress.com/
- basch 6y ago
  Would it be feasable for the government to acquire a mobile first bank and graft it onto the post office? Either chime, bankmobile, moven, or simple. Is it a space the government wants to compete against Apple and Google? If every mobile phone in the country comes with a free integrated banking service, how do you compete? Would the government better serve by using its resources to regulate interoperability and compatibility, and rule following, than by competing? I totally get why a free post office bank would do great things to serve the underbanked. But if the government is going to get into banking, id like to see it go a step further, more like Singapore, and be some kind of new HSA type account offering, a forced savings account that can be used to pay rent and more.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    It's not politically feasible. The Republicans have been trying to kill off the USPS for decades now, and would torpedo any effort to expand it's scope in a way that that the USPS might be competent at.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Right, you need more reps who support protecting and expanding public goods like the USPS, regardless of political affiliation.
Etheryte 6y ago
I think the problem really isn't as complicated as that list might make it seem. In my home country (EU), local shops offer basic banking services (withdraw, deposit money) in rural areas where banks have no incentive to have a branch. They're already integrated into the wider cash flow system, money is moved to and from the locations securely regularly, etc. Postal offices would tick all those boxes as well with the additional contextual benefit of being government-run.
Spooky23 6y ago
It's not that hard. Just assume control of some bankrupt bank or even contract out the backend, and put terminals in post offices. When Bank of America merged with a few others, they actually operated several of the old banks at once for awhile. Medicare uses the latter model for claims processing -- big insurance companies bid on processing, subrogation, etc.
specialist 6y ago
Not commercial banks. Above examples are just passbook (personal) savings and misc services. Super simple. Though I'd be open minded towards some overlap with credit unions.
grecy 6y ago
There are plenty of comments in this very thread that give examples of many other countries already doing it, including countries that have way lower GDP/Person than the US. Are you saying the US is incapable of doing what is already being done in many other countries?
- thephyber 6y ago
  > Are you saying the US is incapable of doing what is already being done in many other countries? "Incapable" assumes lots of things, but practically speaking the number of things that we (the USA) "are capable of doing" is shrinking and using GDP/Person is an interesting way to illustrate the point. We are overpaying for services that other countries have managed to solve for reasonable costs. University tuition, healthcare, building infrastructure are all ridiculously expensive in the USA, so our higher GDP/Person is largely wasted compared to most other OECD countries. Our government and the crooked ethical guidelines of our companies/organizations are why this overpricing started and continues to exist. For those tasks which require regulatory/legal changes, the USA is swimming in peanut butter. What we "are capable of doing" largely has to do with our Legislature+Executive branches ability to find ways to make productive changes (rare) without sabotaging those same efforts (even rarer). But half of those people are rowing in one direction (team red) and the other half in another (team blue). The USA's primary policy tool is "make the most visible spectacle of brinksmanship" and has been for 10+ years. The people/companies in the USA are capable of feature parity with just about any other country's people/companies, but that assumes that our government either doesn't get in the way or their government doesn't assist them.

user5994461 6y ago

Are you talking about the US post office? The post office in France already offer banking. It's mandated by law as a public service and they can't reject customers. It doesn't offer the more complex products or investments though, it ain't their purpose. Not sure about the UK post office. Seem to offer a lot of banking services and cards, but it says it doesn't do current accounts anymore.

jonny_eh 6y ago
Yes, the article was about the US.
dboreham 6y ago
The UK Post Office did offer banking. Not sure if it survived Thatcher..
- Milner08 6y ago
  They offer some things now (deposits, travel cards, etc), but I am not sure they offer actual accounts anymore.
  - jermaustin1 6y ago
    According to their website, they still offer almost everything a traditional bank does. Including personal loans, and mortgages [1]. 1: https://www.postoffice.co.uk/money https://www.postoffice.co.uk/money
    - makomk 6y ago
      A lot of that is just rebranding of services offered by one of the normal, traditional banks though.
notJim 6y ago
> they can't reject customers This would be a huge thing in the US, where poor people cannot get bank accounts, and end up needing to use predatory paycheck cashing providers who take huge fees instead.

Bombthecat 6y ago

Germany did that (post bank) didn't want so well...

pstrateman 6y ago
What went wrong?
- joering2 6y ago
  Something must have gone wrong. I know for fact that in Poland you can bank at post office at least since 90s. Its still common think for seniors to have no bank account because there is no need to. They typically get pension in form of a government check that they cash at "Poczta Polska" and then use cash to shop. Post office also pays all the bills, utilities etc, so long as you know corporation/receipient bank number.
- allendoerfer 6y ago
  Nothing. It got privatized and is currently owned by Deutsche Bank.
  - Talanes 6y ago
    It's not nothing if it was privatized. Either something went wrong to drive privatization, or nothing was going wrong to begin with and then privatization was what went wrong.
    - allendoerfer 6y ago
      Postbank got privatized, because in the 90s everything got privatized. It is used today by Deutsche Bank to target its private customers. It is not one of the fintechs but generally able to compete in that market.
yardie 6y ago
Post Bank formed from Deutsche Bank. Which was made infamous for loaning Donald Trump loads of money on highly questionable terms.

slezyr 6y ago

In Ukraine we used mail mans to deliver pensions, that was horrible for them. Almost every year they were assaults in which they died. They represent a simple target as they don't have means to protect themselves.

sova 6y ago
Cash delivery?
- slezyr 6y ago
  Yes, direct to the person at the post office and between the cities.

Betelgeuse90 6y ago

There's a postal service bank in Israel as well. Lots of people use it, it's a fine service. They also offer fantastic foreign exchange rates, pretty much the best I think.

anonAndOn 6y ago

I believe Japan Post offers(ed?) this service. They had the best FX exchange rates, as well.

igravious 6y ago

We have this in Ireland! https://www.anpost.com/Money https://www.anpost.com/Money

thephyber 6y ago

The USPS used to run limited banking services[1] in the 20th century. It was largely obsolete by the 1960s (according to the Wiki article). It's also important to note that the USPS is required to be self-sufficient in its purse strings, but is heavily restricted in what markets it can/can't be in by Congress. I think the "privatize everything" crowd of legislators/lobbyists see the USPS in banking as an existential threat to private banks profit margins and it won't happen without a political black swan (maybe not even in the current black swan environment). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Savings_S...

bostonvaulter2 6y ago

This was one of Andrew Yang's policy proposals in his presidential bid (and it was one of my favorites). Looks like a bunch of other countries already do it as well.