5 ms·

I mean, if there ever was a point where you take a step back and ask yourself "will voting actually solve this" this surely must be it? How on earth would votin

by 317070 7y ago

I mean, if there ever was a point where you take a step back and ask yourself "will voting actually solve this" this surely must be it? How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? I'm not advocating for "not voting", I'm advocating for not letting yourself getting paralyzed by the idea that you are represented already anyway. You are only represented in the most superficial of ways. Start acting instead. Make JP Morgan feel your anger. Make people see your anger to JP Morgan. You don't have to keep taking the hits. Acting helps psychologically and emotionally and on the best of days even might change things.

test1235 7y ago
What are you suggesting, specifically?
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I'd assume not supporting JPMC as a customer (as well as the businesses that use JPMC for commercial and investment banking services), perhaps protests next. Are we in an era when JPMC senior leadership would be doxxed online? I would be surprised if we weren't. Lots of actions available besides the political process where you can still remain firmly on the right side of the law but cause discomfort to the other party. Don't break the law.
- 317070 7y ago
  Possible actions: - If you had a JP Morgan account. Cancel it. - Evaluate if they did something illegal, organise a group and go to court over it. - If you live close to a JP Morgan office, go there and do something. Try to not attract police, as they have more important things to do, but as a rule, the people that work there should have an unusual day. Something as simple as distributing leaflets can for example be really effective to get the office productivity down, especially when maintained. - Push politicians (maybe on a local level) to apply pressure where they can. Overall: Don't be nice and agreeable. Be MOAR: mad, organised, angry and relentless.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Additionally, Jamie Dimon is on the short list for a Biden cabinet position[1] - reach out to his campaign and express that given the action he's undertaken he is absolutely unsuitable to advocate for the American people. 1. https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks...
thefounder 7y ago
Is JP Morgan to blame that the guy you voted for gave it some money to spend on its biggest customers? You fail to see that JP Morgan is just the middle man.
- ardy42 7y ago
  > Is JP Morgan to blame that the guy you voted for gave it some money to spend on its biggest customers? You fail to see that JP Morgan is just the middle man. Yeah. We blame people and organizations all the time for things that they were legally permitted to do but were selfish, short-sighted, or stupid. Frankly, JP Morgan should try to be more like Shake Shack (not that Shake Shack was perfect, but at least they recognized and corrected their error: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-returning-loan-ppp-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-retu...)
  - IG_Semmelweiss 7y ago
    Nonsense. The ethical calculus of both JPM and Shakeshak are identical. What is different is the cost of that decision. shakesak has significant cost to its brand whereas JPM has no brand equity left. Shakeshak customers have alternatives, whereas JPM customers dont care or cant bail since bank options are limited
zapita 7y ago
> How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? By removing from power the corrupt officials who colluded with JPM and other large corporations to steal stimulus money from small businesses? JPM benefited from corruption of the political process. Corruption is enabled by minority rule. Minority rule is enabled by citizen apathy, like when people start saying that “voting isn’t acting!”. By voting en masse, we as citizens get to 1) hold corrupt officials accountable, and 2) strengthen the democratic process by making it more representative, and therefore less vulnerable to corruption in the future. As a side note: in my experience, people who say things like “voting is not acting, you need to do more!” are not reliable voters, and not reliable activists either. On the other hand, the most proactive voters tend to already know what else they can do. Electoral activism leads to broader activism. TLDR: start by taking voting seriously.
- rblatz 7y ago
  If you don’t like chocolate ice cream, and you are given the choice between two different flavors of chocolate ice cream, picking the other chocolate flavor isn’t a solution.
  - Bud 7y ago
    Ignoring the obvious and glaring differences between our two political parties isn't constructive or illuminating.
    - RHSeeger 7y ago
      Neither is ignoring the similarities (corruption, greed, etc).
- 317070 7y ago
  > As a side note: in my experience, people who say things like “voting is not acting, you need to do more!” are not reliable voters, and not reliable activists either. Well, sorry if I take the above personally, but here is another datapoint. I almost literally said the above in the post you quoted. I have voted in every election I legally could do so. I have run as a candidate in a number of elections. I have even organised groups to running for elections. I did broader activism and have organised a number of activist lawsuits. After a run in with the police I had to tune things down a bit for my family. > Electoral activism leads to broader activism. It does both, really. It is a rung on the ladder, a lot of activists start there. But it can also have the effect of soaking up a lot energy from existing activists, with very little real consequences. There is a balance. Political activism, civil activism and judicial activism also have a space and can have a better trade-off between energy invested and concrete consequences.
michaelt 7y ago
> How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? The solution is not voting directly, although voting is part of the solution. The solution is to form and fund a political action body, equivalent to the NRA or MADD or NAACP; define its remit broadly enough to cover all important aspects of the problem but narrowly enough it can draw members from across the political spectrum and won't be impossible to satisfy; recruit lots and lots of members; hire some competent lobbyists; issue candidate endorsements at every election and THEN vote. Opposing corruption isn't only a Silicon Valley concern, but it's always struck me that the Silicon Valley community could have a lot of political power if there was a collective will to grasp it: SV regularly gambles tens of millions of dollars on uncertain returns, and the median SV worker has much more disposable income than the median NRA member.

by 317070 7y ago

test1235 7y ago

What are you suggesting, specifically?

toomuchtodo 7y ago
I'd assume not supporting JPMC as a customer (as well as the businesses that use JPMC for commercial and investment banking services), perhaps protests next. Are we in an era when JPMC senior leadership would be doxxed online? I would be surprised if we weren't. Lots of actions available besides the political process where you can still remain firmly on the right side of the law but cause discomfort to the other party. Don't break the law.
317070 7y ago
Possible actions: - If you had a JP Morgan account. Cancel it. - Evaluate if they did something illegal, organise a group and go to court over it. - If you live close to a JP Morgan office, go there and do something. Try to not attract police, as they have more important things to do, but as a rule, the people that work there should have an unusual day. Something as simple as distributing leaflets can for example be really effective to get the office productivity down, especially when maintained. - Push politicians (maybe on a local level) to apply pressure where they can. Overall: Don't be nice and agreeable. Be MOAR: mad, organised, angry and relentless.
- munk-a 7y ago
  Additionally, Jamie Dimon is on the short list for a Biden cabinet position[1] - reach out to his campaign and express that given the action he's undertaken he is absolutely unsuitable to advocate for the American people. 1. https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks...

thefounder 7y ago

Is JP Morgan to blame that the guy you voted for gave it some money to spend on its biggest customers? You fail to see that JP Morgan is just the middle man.

ardy42 7y ago
> Is JP Morgan to blame that the guy you voted for gave it some money to spend on its biggest customers? You fail to see that JP Morgan is just the middle man. Yeah. We blame people and organizations all the time for things that they were legally permitted to do but were selfish, short-sighted, or stupid. Frankly, JP Morgan should try to be more like Shake Shack (not that Shake Shack was perfect, but at least they recognized and corrected their error: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-returning-loan-ppp-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/business/shake-shack-retu...)
- IG_Semmelweiss 7y ago
  Nonsense. The ethical calculus of both JPM and Shakeshak are identical. What is different is the cost of that decision. shakesak has significant cost to its brand whereas JPM has no brand equity left. Shakeshak customers have alternatives, whereas JPM customers dont care or cant bail since bank options are limited

zapita 7y ago

> How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? By removing from power the corrupt officials who colluded with JPM and other large corporations to steal stimulus money from small businesses? JPM benefited from corruption of the political process. Corruption is enabled by minority rule. Minority rule is enabled by citizen apathy, like when people start saying that “voting isn’t acting!”. By voting en masse, we as citizens get to 1) hold corrupt officials accountable, and 2) strengthen the democratic process by making it more representative, and therefore less vulnerable to corruption in the future. As a side note: in my experience, people who say things like “voting is not acting, you need to do more!” are not reliable voters, and not reliable activists either. On the other hand, the most proactive voters tend to already know what else they can do. Electoral activism leads to broader activism. TLDR: start by taking voting seriously.

rblatz 7y ago
If you don’t like chocolate ice cream, and you are given the choice between two different flavors of chocolate ice cream, picking the other chocolate flavor isn’t a solution.
- Bud 7y ago
  Ignoring the obvious and glaring differences between our two political parties isn't constructive or illuminating.
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    Neither is ignoring the similarities (corruption, greed, etc).
317070 7y ago
> As a side note: in my experience, people who say things like “voting is not acting, you need to do more!” are not reliable voters, and not reliable activists either. Well, sorry if I take the above personally, but here is another datapoint. I almost literally said the above in the post you quoted. I have voted in every election I legally could do so. I have run as a candidate in a number of elections. I have even organised groups to running for elections. I did broader activism and have organised a number of activist lawsuits. After a run in with the police I had to tune things down a bit for my family. > Electoral activism leads to broader activism. It does both, really. It is a rung on the ladder, a lot of activists start there. But it can also have the effect of soaking up a lot energy from existing activists, with very little real consequences. There is a balance. Political activism, civil activism and judicial activism also have a space and can have a better trade-off between energy invested and concrete consequences.

michaelt 7y ago

> How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? The solution is not voting directly, although voting is part of the solution. The solution is to form and fund a political action body, equivalent to the NRA or MADD or NAACP; define its remit broadly enough to cover all important aspects of the problem but narrowly enough it can draw members from across the political spectrum and won't be impossible to satisfy; recruit lots and lots of members; hire some competent lobbyists; issue candidate endorsements at every election and THEN vote. Opposing corruption isn't only a Silicon Valley concern, but it's always struck me that the Silicon Valley community could have a lot of political power if there was a collective will to grasp it: SV regularly gambles tens of millions of dollars on uncertain returns, and the median SV worker has much more disposable income than the median NRA member.