8 ms·

> Any thoughts on where this energy should go? Voting, and making sure everyone you know votes too.

by zapita 7y ago

jdironman 7y ago
Voting doesn't do sh.. if the system is inherently broken.
- HorizonXP 7y ago
  It also doesn't help those businesses today. Voting won't happen in time to effect the emergency measures needed today.
- donarb 7y ago
  The system is broken because people don't vote. There are plenty of votes out there to override the powerful, but people who give up and say it's hopeless are part of the problem.
  - erentz 7y ago
    There are two parties and they both represent the interests of the large corporations that fund them. The media are all large corporations that benefit from this system, and get funding from those same large corporations in ad revenue. The over 45 demographic only watches that media and so only hears what that media wants them to hear so are extremely low information voters. The PACs and committees of the respective parties are insanely powerful and run by people who are mostly grifters there to get their paycheck. They don’t care about policy. And if you step out of line too far against them they’ll throw millions against you in a primary to get rid of you. The system is broken because at the moment in most districts you just can’t compete against who has the money.
    - ralston3 7y ago
      +1 here
  - alpha_squared 7y ago
    While you're not wrong, there are plenty of inactive voters, I sincerely doubt they'd vote in any way that isn't already highly consistent with how votes are already allotted. Say there are 40% of inactive voters (the number is much higher in the US) and you get them all to vote somehow. I'm willing to bet those votes don't dramatically shift election outcomes in any significant way (beyond ~1%). Sure, that'd help in close races, but not much else.
  - hi_im_miles 7y ago
    I don't buy this. Even if everyone voted, you'd still end up with policies that continue to advantage whichever voting blocs have the largest influence. The system is broken because it's a zero-sum game; privileging those who are represented by the system at the expense of those who aren't is a feature of democracy, not a bug.
317070 7y ago
I mean, if there ever was a point where you take a step back and ask yourself "will voting actually solve this" this surely must be it? How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? I'm not advocating for "not voting", I'm advocating for not letting yourself getting paralyzed by the idea that you are represented already anyway. You are only represented in the most superficial of ways. Start acting instead. Make JP Morgan feel your anger. Make people see your anger to JP Morgan. You don't have to keep taking the hits. Acting helps psychologically and emotionally and on the best of days even might change things.
- test1235 7y ago
  What are you suggesting, specifically?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    I'd assume not supporting JPMC as a customer (as well as the businesses that use JPMC for commercial and investment banking services), perhaps protests next. Are we in an era when JPMC senior leadership would be doxxed online? I would be surprised if we weren't. Lots of actions available besides the political process where you can still remain firmly on the right side of the law but cause discomfort to the other party. Don't break the law.
  - 317070 7y ago
    Possible actions: - If you had a JP Morgan account. Cancel it. - Evaluate if they did something illegal, organise a group and go to court over it. - If you live close to a JP Morgan office, go there and do something. Try to not attract police, as they have more important things to do, but as a rule, the people that work there should have an unusual day. Something as simple as distributing leaflets can for example be really effective to get the office productivity down, especially when maintained. - Push politicians (maybe on a local level) to apply pressure where they can. Overall: Don't be nice and agreeable. Be MOAR: mad, organised, angry and relentless.
    - munk-a 7y ago
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Who do we vote for? The only standout here is Rep Thomas Massie who tried to force a recorded vote by requiring people to return to the capital. He was dragged by both sides and the president. Google his name and look how the media treated him.
- hcknwscommenter 7y ago
  Massie's stunt was an obvious and dangerous troll. You want all of Congress to come down with COVID? What nonsense is that. Massie was rightfully pilloried. THe obvious answer is to vote for the party that actually believes in sound government. The one that is not constantly dismantling important institutions. I have a lot of issues with the Democratic party positions on a number of matters, but they would not have been so entirely inept at every step of the way as team trump and his corrupt cronies. I mean, what the heck is Mnuchin even doing? Kudlow? THese are the people in the executive branch who should be working day and night to craft the regulations as Congress passes the law. The law states the rule, the regulations state how those rules will be implemented. That is how it is supposed to work. This administration is completely incapable of anything requiring competence. These crooks need to get voted out. They are literally killing us and destroying lives and careers.
  - pythonaut_16 7y ago
    These bailout bills have been passed with broad bipartisan support, of which you will never see who voted for or against the bill because it was only a voice vote. So how is voting for either party going to help a problem that both parties equally passed?
    - ardy42 7y ago
      > These bailout bills have been passed with broad bipartisan support... > So how is voting for either party going to help a problem that both parties equally passed? I think that's misunderstanding politics. Broad bipartisan support doesn't mean both parties were happy with each and every provision, it means that they found the overall compromise acceptable enough to vote for (given the circumstances). For instance: IIRC, the Democrats actually wanted to add a permanent, general paid sick-leave benefit to one of these relief bills, but after Republican objections they compromised and settled for a temporary COVID-specific benefit to achieve "broad bipartisan support" for the overall bill. That doesn't mean they changed their position, and if more people had voted for Democrats in the last election, the outcome would have been different.
ken 7y ago
Which ballot is for JP Morgan loan officers? Or do you mean voting in my non-battleground state for US president (D for the past 30 years), or perhaps senator (D for the past 20 years)? What effect, exactly, are we hoping for? ‘Voting for financial policy change‘ is like ‘participating in a moment of silence for those we’ve lost to the pandemic‘. The act is something a reasonable person should do because they are a member of society but it is not a solution to that particular problem.
- zapita 7y ago
  Are you certain that none of your mayor, governor, senators, representatives, state senate, state representatives, local democratic council members etc. have accepted JPM’s money? Perhaps you can research that point, and act accordingly. In “all blue” seats you can do this in primary elections. You can also donate your time and money to battleground campaigns elsewhere in the US if you are a citizen. There are also plenty of ways to get more people to vote, including in battleground states. If you care, there are plenty of things you can do.
_curious_ 7y ago
I think we're past that point...don't get me wrong, it can help and is part of the answer but very clear it is not the solution. It's naive in this day and age to rely on such an archaic method and expect permanent or fundamental change.
spaceprison 7y ago
At some point I feel like we moved from 'deregulation and open markets' to a federal plutocrat enshrinment and oligarch protection program. This behavior will not change because of a single election for a handful of seats 6 months away. There was talk of a constitutional convention back in 2016 and I think it's time to think about how regular folks can recapture the direction of the nation.

> Any thoughts on where this energy should go? Voting, and making sure everyone you know votes too.

by zapita 7y ago

> Any thoughts on where this energy should go? Voting, and making sure everyone you know votes too.

jdironman 7y ago

Voting doesn't do sh.. if the system is inherently broken.

HorizonXP 7y ago
It also doesn't help those businesses today. Voting won't happen in time to effect the emergency measures needed today.
donarb 7y ago
The system is broken because people don't vote. There are plenty of votes out there to override the powerful, but people who give up and say it's hopeless are part of the problem.
- erentz 7y ago
  There are two parties and they both represent the interests of the large corporations that fund them. The media are all large corporations that benefit from this system, and get funding from those same large corporations in ad revenue. The over 45 demographic only watches that media and so only hears what that media wants them to hear so are extremely low information voters. The PACs and committees of the respective parties are insanely powerful and run by people who are mostly grifters there to get their paycheck. They don’t care about policy. And if you step out of line too far against them they’ll throw millions against you in a primary to get rid of you. The system is broken because at the moment in most districts you just can’t compete against who has the money.
  - ralston3 7y ago
    +1 here
- alpha_squared 7y ago
  While you're not wrong, there are plenty of inactive voters, I sincerely doubt they'd vote in any way that isn't already highly consistent with how votes are already allotted. Say there are 40% of inactive voters (the number is much higher in the US) and you get them all to vote somehow. I'm willing to bet those votes don't dramatically shift election outcomes in any significant way (beyond ~1%). Sure, that'd help in close races, but not much else.
- hi_im_miles 7y ago
  I don't buy this. Even if everyone voted, you'd still end up with policies that continue to advantage whichever voting blocs have the largest influence. The system is broken because it's a zero-sum game; privileging those who are represented by the system at the expense of those who aren't is a feature of democracy, not a bug.

317070 7y ago

I mean, if there ever was a point where you take a step back and ask yourself "will voting actually solve this" this surely must be it? How on earth would voting actually solve something like this? I'm not advocating for "not voting", I'm advocating for not letting yourself getting paralyzed by the idea that you are represented already anyway. You are only represented in the most superficial of ways. Start acting instead. Make JP Morgan feel your anger. Make people see your anger to JP Morgan. You don't have to keep taking the hits. Acting helps psychologically and emotionally and on the best of days even might change things.

test1235 7y ago
What are you suggesting, specifically?
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I'd assume not supporting JPMC as a customer (as well as the businesses that use JPMC for commercial and investment banking services), perhaps protests next. Are we in an era when JPMC senior leadership would be doxxed online? I would be surprised if we weren't. Lots of actions available besides the political process where you can still remain firmly on the right side of the law but cause discomfort to the other party. Don't break the law.
- 317070 7y ago
  Possible actions: - If you had a JP Morgan account. Cancel it. - Evaluate if they did something illegal, organise a group and go to court over it. - If you live close to a JP Morgan office, go there and do something. Try to not attract police, as they have more important things to do, but as a rule, the people that work there should have an unusual day. Something as simple as distributing leaflets can for example be really effective to get the office productivity down, especially when maintained. - Push politicians (maybe on a local level) to apply pressure where they can. Overall: Don't be nice and agreeable. Be MOAR: mad, organised, angry and relentless.
  - munk-a 7y ago

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Who do we vote for? The only standout here is Rep Thomas Massie who tried to force a recorded vote by requiring people to return to the capital. He was dragged by both sides and the president. Google his name and look how the media treated him.

hcknwscommenter 7y ago
Massie's stunt was an obvious and dangerous troll. You want all of Congress to come down with COVID? What nonsense is that. Massie was rightfully pilloried. THe obvious answer is to vote for the party that actually believes in sound government. The one that is not constantly dismantling important institutions. I have a lot of issues with the Democratic party positions on a number of matters, but they would not have been so entirely inept at every step of the way as team trump and his corrupt cronies. I mean, what the heck is Mnuchin even doing? Kudlow? THese are the people in the executive branch who should be working day and night to craft the regulations as Congress passes the law. The law states the rule, the regulations state how those rules will be implemented. That is how it is supposed to work. This administration is completely incapable of anything requiring competence. These crooks need to get voted out. They are literally killing us and destroying lives and careers.
- pythonaut_16 7y ago
  These bailout bills have been passed with broad bipartisan support, of which you will never see who voted for or against the bill because it was only a voice vote. So how is voting for either party going to help a problem that both parties equally passed?
  - ardy42 7y ago
    > These bailout bills have been passed with broad bipartisan support... > So how is voting for either party going to help a problem that both parties equally passed? I think that's misunderstanding politics. Broad bipartisan support doesn't mean both parties were happy with each and every provision, it means that they found the overall compromise acceptable enough to vote for (given the circumstances). For instance: IIRC, the Democrats actually wanted to add a permanent, general paid sick-leave benefit to one of these relief bills, but after Republican objections they compromised and settled for a temporary COVID-specific benefit to achieve "broad bipartisan support" for the overall bill. That doesn't mean they changed their position, and if more people had voted for Democrats in the last election, the outcome would have been different.

ken 7y ago

Which ballot is for JP Morgan loan officers? Or do you mean voting in my non-battleground state for US president (D for the past 30 years), or perhaps senator (D for the past 20 years)? What effect, exactly, are we hoping for? ‘Voting for financial policy change‘ is like ‘participating in a moment of silence for those we’ve lost to the pandemic‘. The act is something a reasonable person should do because they are a member of society but it is not a solution to that particular problem.

zapita 7y ago
Are you certain that none of your mayor, governor, senators, representatives, state senate, state representatives, local democratic council members etc. have accepted JPM’s money? Perhaps you can research that point, and act accordingly. In “all blue” seats you can do this in primary elections. You can also donate your time and money to battleground campaigns elsewhere in the US if you are a citizen. There are also plenty of ways to get more people to vote, including in battleground states. If you care, there are plenty of things you can do.

_curious_ 7y ago

I think we're past that point...don't get me wrong, it can help and is part of the answer but very clear it is not the solution. It's naive in this day and age to rely on such an archaic method and expect permanent or fundamental change.

spaceprison 7y ago

At some point I feel like we moved from 'deregulation and open markets' to a federal plutocrat enshrinment and oligarch protection program. This behavior will not change because of a single election for a handful of seats 6 months away. There was talk of a constitutional convention back in 2016 and I think it's time to think about how regular folks can recapture the direction of the nation.