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Yes, it was asked in good faith. With that follows some good faith follow-up questions: > It is not overstated how unique the approach is, primarily because it

Yes, it was asked in good faith. With that follows some good faith follow-up questions: > It is not overstated how unique the approach is, primarily because it is totally and completely unique and quite wildly so compared to not only Swedens nordic neighbours but the entire world. AFAIU Tegnell is meaning that the swedish approach is the same in that the measures will have the same effect as complete and total lockdown, just not forced by the government? So the difference is actually quite subtle (enforced by law vs enforced by the people) or am I misunderstanding here? > this is an argument for creation of those kinds of laws, that's the job of parliament and generally has happened in most other countries in Europe. I see what you mean, but given that the experts are also saying that it is not necessary, should it be pushed through anyway? > Twice per week is nothing, given that the virus has a 4-7day lag in even presenting symptoms and the exponential rate of growth, the lack of testing (it is advised _not_ to seek testing) it's not even possible to have real numbers. If I understand your point here correctly, is that you feel that having uptodate numbers is more important than the government agencies currently do? > Twice per week is nothing, given that the virus has a 4-7day lag in even presenting symptoms and the exponential rate of growth, WHy is the 4-7 dag lag important with the twice-per-week meetings with regional authorities? > 4) Gyms are open, my PT had COVID-19 symptoms and continued to go to the gym, she was not tested because seeking testing is discouraged. Going out with symptoms is an offence so I assume your PT was told to go home? https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/expert-att-sprida-corona-kan-vara-ett-allvarligt-brott/ https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/expert-att-sprida-corona-ka... > I wear a mask when walking around and I get scoffed at. What are your thoughts on the Swedish Public Health Agency's information that masks are not needed? https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd-beredskap/utbrott/aktuella-utbrott/covid-19/fragor-och-svar/?exp=68690#_68690 https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd-beredskap/utb... https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/experten-forklarar-sa-anvander-du-munskydd-och-andningsskydd-mot-corona https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/experten-forklarar-sa-anv... Just fyi, I'm also Swedish and live in Stockholm so also seeing all this first-hand. And I put a lot of faith into what the government and their agencies are saying so it's interesting to hear from someone who doesn't!

dijit 6y ago
> AFAIU Tegnell is meaning that the swedish approach is the same in that the measures will have the same effect as complete and total lockdown, just not forced by the government? So the difference is actually quite subtle (enforced by law vs enforced by the people) or am I misunderstanding here? The outcome might be "the same" (only history will tell us if this is actually true) but the path we're trying to follow is not the same as any other country. This is why it is unique. Not the outcome, the path. > I see what you mean, but given that the experts are also saying that it is not necessary, should it be pushed through anyway? FWIW there are many in the scientific community in Sweden who desperately do not agree with Anders. Ideally a technocracy is great, but this does not feel like a technocracy. I'm not saying that because of political pressures, but because the "do nothing" approach is not based in any science that anybody can cite. > If I understand your point here correctly, is that you feel that having uptodate numbers is more important than the government agencies currently do? I'm saying that it's not possible to forecast this kind of virus without adequate testing _and_ very strong communication. Most countries are "OK" until they suddenly aren't.. then the peak of the issue comes 1-2 weeks /after/ they realise there is a problem. >WHy is the 4-7 dag lag important with the twice-per-week meetings with regional authorities? If people were presenting symptoms quickly then it would help map the spread of the virus and inform opinion on when the healthcare system will be overwhelmed so we can prepare. > Going out with symptoms is an offence so I assume your PT was told to go home? [snip] Nobody is taking this seriously. She thinks she just had a fever and a sore throat. I suggested it was possibly COVID-19 related to which she said "I doubt it very much" and that was the end of it. > What are your thoughts on the Swedish Public Health Agency's information that masks are not needed? That was a recommendation across the globe, but it's been contested and the current recommendation from most healthcare agencies is to use masks, with the empasis on tring to make your own and not to consume the medical grade ones : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/21/scientists-join-calls-for-uk-public-to-wear-homemade-face-masks-outdoors https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/21/scientists-... > Just fyi, I'm also Swedish and live in Stockholm so also seeing all this first-hand. And I put a lot of faith into what the government and their agencies are saying so it's interesting to hear from someone who doesn't! For context I'm not natively Swedish, I'm natively British, so maybe I don't share so much the culture of high trust in the government. But I'm also gravely dismayed by the sheer and flagrant violation of the recommendations even by Swedes. The prevailing mindset is not only selfish it is based on the notion that "If I break the rules but nobody else does I'll be fine". It is very common for bars and restaurants to be full (like I previously mentioned) groups of people going shopping and hanging around in parks with the warm weather. The virus has not killed so many in Skane yet.. but I do fear for the future.

dijit 6y ago

> AFAIU Tegnell is meaning that the swedish approach is the same in that the measures will have the same effect as complete and total lockdown, just not forced by the government? So the difference is actually quite subtle (enforced by law vs enforced by the people) or am I misunderstanding here? The outcome might be "the same" (only history will tell us if this is actually true) but the path we're trying to follow is not the same as any other country. This is why it is unique. Not the outcome, the path. > I see what you mean, but given that the experts are also saying that it is not necessary, should it be pushed through anyway? FWIW there are many in the scientific community in Sweden who desperately do not agree with Anders. Ideally a technocracy is great, but this does not feel like a technocracy. I'm not saying that because of political pressures, but because the "do nothing" approach is not based in any science that anybody can cite. > If I understand your point here correctly, is that you feel that having uptodate numbers is more important than the government agencies currently do? I'm saying that it's not possible to forecast this kind of virus without adequate testing _and_ very strong communication. Most countries are "OK" until they suddenly aren't.. then the peak of the issue comes 1-2 weeks /after/ they realise there is a problem. >WHy is the 4-7 dag lag important with the twice-per-week meetings with regional authorities? If people were presenting symptoms quickly then it would help map the spread of the virus and inform opinion on when the healthcare system will be overwhelmed so we can prepare. > Going out with symptoms is an offence so I assume your PT was told to go home? [snip] Nobody is taking this seriously. She thinks she just had a fever and a sore throat. I suggested it was possibly COVID-19 related to which she said "I doubt it very much" and that was the end of it. > What are your thoughts on the Swedish Public Health Agency's information that masks are not needed? That was a recommendation across the globe, but it's been contested and the current recommendation from most healthcare agencies is to use masks, with the empasis on tring to make your own and not to consume the medical grade ones : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/21/scientists-join-calls-for-uk-public-to-wear-homemade-face-masks-outdoors https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/21/scientists-... > Just fyi, I'm also Swedish and live in Stockholm so also seeing all this first-hand. And I put a lot of faith into what the government and their agencies are saying so it's interesting to hear from someone who doesn't! For context I'm not natively Swedish, I'm natively British, so maybe I don't share so much the culture of high trust in the government. But I'm also gravely dismayed by the sheer and flagrant violation of the recommendations even by Swedes. The prevailing mindset is not only selfish it is based on the notion that "If I break the rules but nobody else does I'll be fine". It is very common for bars and restaurants to be full (like I previously mentioned) groups of people going shopping and hanging around in parks with the warm weather. The virus has not killed so many in Skane yet.. but I do fear for the future.