4 ms·

>I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Okay... so...?

>I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Okay... so...? Did you wait 10 years for a Green Card while in immigration limbo? Do you even know the difference between then and now? >And yet, despite the INS's dickitude, the country churns out startups like crazy. So enough is enough? Will more hurt, esp with 10% unemployment? Maybe we should shutdown some VCs as well, since there are enough startups. AFAIK the Chatroulette founder was on a temp visa and was exploring options for a longer term visa. Can you reference how he 'moved' here? >And I also know some who went back because their H1B visas expired; but you know what? It is good to see that. Just like seeds from a flower spread far and wide with the wind, I hope the seeds of entrepreneurship spread far and wide; the worlds needs more entrepreneurs. Silicon Valley has more than enough. Your argument doesn't make sense. According to you the US/Silicon Valley is the best place to breed startups.. but you want the potential founders to go elsewhere where they might not have the best chances. Does not compute.

tptacek 16y ago
He's saying two things: First, that it's hard to take seriously the idea that inept immigration policies are creating a real threat to the US, because it's still so far ahead of the curve on entrepreneurship. Secondly, that it's not a human tragedy that people are being forced by circumstances to leave the US, because those people are likely to start companies in their home countries. It would be a good thing for the world if there was more entrepeneurship everywhere, not just where there is the least friction to practicing it.
- cooldeal 16y ago
  >Secondly, that it's not a human tragedy that people are being forced by circumstances to leave the US, because those people are likely to start companies in their home countries. Restrictions on a work visa holder: 1) Your spouse cannot work at all unless she qualifies and obtains a specialized H1 herself/himself 2) If you get fired on a Friday, you're technically out of status from a legal point from Saturday and must leave immediately regardless of spouse,rent leases, homes, cars, pets, kids, kids' schools, personal property etc. 3) You and your spouse and kids cannot have any supplemental active income. This rules out selling photographs on stock photo sites, phone apps, etc. You can basically do nothing productive that earns money outside your job. 4) If you move to a different job or even change roles, you have to reapply for the Green Card process from the scratch. Expect multiyear delays just to get back to where you were. 5) If you or your spouse wants to visit your home country or travel outside the country, expect to get stuck there for months for no good reasons. It has become so bad that immigration lawyers are advising not to travel internationally except for emergencies. You're basically stuck in the country. See one example: Consulate Location - MUMBAI Interview Date - 26 AUGUST 2010 Docs asked? - None Docs submitted? None Docs submitted Date - N/A Email Receipt Date - NOV 23, 2010 Passport Submission Date - same day as that of interview Passport Stamped/Received Date - RECEIVED WITHOUT STAMPING AFTER 15 DAYS RECEIVED 2ND EMAIL ON DEC 15, 2010 TO SUBMIT PASSPORT AGAIN RECEIVED MY PASSPORT WITHOUT STAMPING Waiting Since (in calendar days) - 170 DAYS Petition Details: Employer Type - AMERICAN , NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION Employer Size - more than 5,000 Assignment Type - DIRECT I-797 Approval Date - 01-JULY 2010 6) Processing of applications takes forever. You can be stuck without a driving license(no renewal) in some states while your extension is pending. Imagine having to go to work with no driving license. Paying an extra $1225 in no-delay fees can speed up the process in a few cases. Edit: 7) Taxes: You get to pay all the taxes including Social Security and Medicare(employers also have to match this) and state unemployment taxes(one won't see a cent of this because one is supposed to leave as soon as they're unemployed). There was a recent bill that increased the fee of some type of work visa applications by $2000 to fund... wait for it... the Mexican border security!
ajays 16y ago
> Okay... so...? Did you wait 10 years for a Green Card while in immigration limbo? Do you even know the difference between then and now? I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. > So enough is enough? Will more hurt, esp with 10% unemployment? Maybe we should shutdown some VCs as well, since there are enough startups. You need to comprehend before responding. The immigration system was as broken 20 years ago as it is today. During boom times it's broken; during bust times it is broken. During the dot-com boom, it was broken, and yet the dot-com boom still happened. It is a constant; you just route around it. > Your argument doesn't make sense. According to you the US/Silicon Valley is the best place to breed startups.. but you want the potential founders to go elsewhere where they might not have the best chances. Does not compute. It "does not compute" because you're not reading, just responding. I'm not saying that the founders should "go somewhere else". I'm saying that if they do choose to "go somewhere else", then that is not a bad thing; in fact, it has a lot of positive aspects to it. SV will be just fine.
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  >I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. >You need to comprehend before responding. The immigration system was as broken 20 years ago as it is today. During boom times it's broken; during bust times it is broken. During the dot-com boom, it was broken, and yet the dot-com boom still happened. It is a constant; you just route around it. Were startups so easy to found 20 years ago? Were there mobile apps that one can develop in part time? Vivek is trying to lobby for a better future. Just because people used to walk uphill both ways in snow to school in the past then doesn't mean you shouldn't try to fix it atleast now.
- cooldeal 16y ago
  >I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. Are you saying that just because people faced hardship earlier, it shouldn't be made easier now? If anything, the numbers show that MORE people are getting affected by the policies and MORE potential startups are getting nipped in the bud. >You need to comprehend before responding. The immigration system was as broken 20 years ago as it is today. During boom times it's broken; during bust times it is broken. During the dot-com boom, it was broken, and yet the dot-com boom still happened. It is a constant; you just route around it. I don't see any reason given for not fixing the system except handwaving here. Let me quote the article here: >Unlike a lot of problems facing our country, this one is easy to fix. We just need to increase the numbers of permanent-resident visas available for those trapped in “immigration limbo”. And we should create a Startup Visa that is more inclusive than the VC/Super Angel bill that is being proposed. This may give the economy a significant boost at no cost to taxpayers. What are your arguments against that paragraph? It is like someone in the 1920s arguing against women's suffrage. 'Hey, we never had the right to vote, but we always still influenced politics by working around it. There are some positive aspects to not having the right to vote. Lets not support it.'

tptacek 16y ago

He's saying two things: First, that it's hard to take seriously the idea that inept immigration policies are creating a real threat to the US, because it's still so far ahead of the curve on entrepreneurship. Secondly, that it's not a human tragedy that people are being forced by circumstances to leave the US, because those people are likely to start companies in their home countries. It would be a good thing for the world if there was more entrepeneurship everywhere, not just where there is the least friction to practicing it.

cooldeal 16y ago
>Secondly, that it's not a human tragedy that people are being forced by circumstances to leave the US, because those people are likely to start companies in their home countries. Restrictions on a work visa holder: 1) Your spouse cannot work at all unless she qualifies and obtains a specialized H1 herself/himself 2) If you get fired on a Friday, you're technically out of status from a legal point from Saturday and must leave immediately regardless of spouse,rent leases, homes, cars, pets, kids, kids' schools, personal property etc. 3) You and your spouse and kids cannot have any supplemental active income. This rules out selling photographs on stock photo sites, phone apps, etc. You can basically do nothing productive that earns money outside your job. 4) If you move to a different job or even change roles, you have to reapply for the Green Card process from the scratch. Expect multiyear delays just to get back to where you were. 5) If you or your spouse wants to visit your home country or travel outside the country, expect to get stuck there for months for no good reasons. It has become so bad that immigration lawyers are advising not to travel internationally except for emergencies. You're basically stuck in the country. See one example: Consulate Location - MUMBAI Interview Date - 26 AUGUST 2010 Docs asked? - None Docs submitted? None Docs submitted Date - N/A Email Receipt Date - NOV 23, 2010 Passport Submission Date - same day as that of interview Passport Stamped/Received Date - RECEIVED WITHOUT STAMPING AFTER 15 DAYS RECEIVED 2ND EMAIL ON DEC 15, 2010 TO SUBMIT PASSPORT AGAIN RECEIVED MY PASSPORT WITHOUT STAMPING Waiting Since (in calendar days) - 170 DAYS Petition Details: Employer Type - AMERICAN , NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION Employer Size - more than 5,000 Assignment Type - DIRECT I-797 Approval Date - 01-JULY 2010 6) Processing of applications takes forever. You can be stuck without a driving license(no renewal) in some states while your extension is pending. Imagine having to go to work with no driving license. Paying an extra $1225 in no-delay fees can speed up the process in a few cases. Edit: 7) Taxes: You get to pay all the taxes including Social Security and Medicare(employers also have to match this) and state unemployment taxes(one won't see a cent of this because one is supposed to leave as soon as they're unemployed). There was a recent bill that increased the fee of some type of work visa applications by $2000 to fund... wait for it... the Mexican border security!

ajays 16y ago

> Okay... so...? Did you wait 10 years for a Green Card while in immigration limbo? Do you even know the difference between then and now? I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. > So enough is enough? Will more hurt, esp with 10% unemployment? Maybe we should shutdown some VCs as well, since there are enough startups. You need to comprehend before responding. The immigration system was as broken 20 years ago as it is today. During boom times it's broken; during bust times it is broken. During the dot-com boom, it was broken, and yet the dot-com boom still happened. It is a constant; you just route around it. > Your argument doesn't make sense. According to you the US/Silicon Valley is the best place to breed startups.. but you want the potential founders to go elsewhere where they might not have the best chances. Does not compute. It "does not compute" because you're not reading, just responding. I'm not saying that the founders should "go somewhere else". I'm saying that if they do choose to "go somewhere else", then that is not a bad thing; in fact, it has a lot of positive aspects to it. SV will be just fine.

recoiledsnake 16y ago
>I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. >You need to comprehend before responding. The immigration system was as broken 20 years ago as it is today. During boom times it's broken; during bust times it is broken. During the dot-com boom, it was broken, and yet the dot-com boom still happened. It is a constant; you just route around it. Were startups so easy to found 20 years ago? Were there mobile apps that one can develop in part time? Vivek is trying to lobby for a better future. Just because people used to walk uphill both ways in snow to school in the past then doesn't mean you shouldn't try to fix it atleast now.
cooldeal 16y ago
>I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. Are you saying that just because people faced hardship earlier, it shouldn't be made easier now? If anything, the numbers show that MORE people are getting affected by the policies and MORE potential startups are getting nipped in the bud. >You need to comprehend before responding. The immigration system was as broken 20 years ago as it is today. During boom times it's broken; during bust times it is broken. During the dot-com boom, it was broken, and yet the dot-com boom still happened. It is a constant; you just route around it. I don't see any reason given for not fixing the system except handwaving here. Let me quote the article here: >Unlike a lot of problems facing our country, this one is easy to fix. We just need to increase the numbers of permanent-resident visas available for those trapped in “immigration limbo”. And we should create a Startup Visa that is more inclusive than the VC/Super Angel bill that is being proposed. This may give the economy a significant boost at no cost to taxpayers. What are your arguments against that paragraph? It is like someone in the 1920s arguing against women's suffrage. 'Hey, we never had the right to vote, but we always still influenced politics by working around it. There are some positive aspects to not having the right to vote. Lets not support it.'