6 ms·

They run a 17% income tax, but with no unemployment benefits.

chrisseaton 7y ago
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... yes you need to pay for the education they give you. It's capped and time limited - so you know the max you'll pay and how long you may be paying up front. Not sure why you're mentioning unemployment benefits? Why would that be their job to do that for you? What's the problem?
- juskrey 7y ago
  The problem is we have no proof that they are better than no education (autodidactism) or even some other education, to begin with. And in crisis times they signal their courses give no edge over the job market by.. laying off their own people.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > The problem is we have no proof that they are better than no education (autodidactism) or even some other education, to begin with. Not really sure what you want here. They don't offer proof? When you buy a book do you demand 'proof' from the author that you'll learn something from it? What proof do universities offer? It's a service offered. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, don't. > And in crisis times they signal their courses give no edge over the job market by.. laying off their own people. These are employees, not students of their course, aren't they? And you having to lay people off due to reduced revenue doesn't say anything about the quality of their education anyway. I think you're just throwing random snide comments around that don't really make any sense.
    - juskrey 7y ago
      The book is a very cheap genuine option: it does not share your upside and has very limited downside (you pay limited price and can throw it out of the window at any time). Claiming slavish tax is the same, like Lambda does, is simply a fraud.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > you pay limited price and can throw it out of the window at any time Lambda School is also limited price as well. And you can 'throw your education out of the window' metaphorically, after you've paid the fee, any time you like. You also can't throw a book out of the window until you've paid the whole price of it. > Claiming slavish tax is the same, like Lambda does, is simply a fraud. It's just a fee for a service. It's not a tax. And there's no deception so it isn't fraud.
- lidHanteyk 7y ago
  It's not true that one needs to pay for a reasonable computer-science education. One can learn wholly online for the cost of Internet connectivity. The problem is that Lambda are vampires. Their model is completely superfluous. They do not add any value over self-assigned MIT lectures on Youtube. From what I have gathered, Lambda is the kind of setting where folks like me are supposed to show up and supplement the "teacher" and their lack of knowledge; normally, when I do that, I expect to be paid six figures per year.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > It's not true that one needs to pay for a reasonable computer-science education. Where on earth do you think I said that? > The problem is that Lambda are vampires. You're just resorting to abuse now.
    - lidHanteyk 7y ago
      Oh my. If you cannot read your own comments, then we aren't going to be able to have a conversation. You clearly implied in your earlier comment that education isn't free and that Lambda earns their keep. But is that the case? In formal jargon, which might not sound much better, Lambda is a rent-seeker [0]; they want to complicate an existing system (people teach themselves for free using freely-available materials and time) in order to extract money from the system. Quoting from [0]: > The classic example of rent-seeking, according to Robert Shiller, is that of a feudal lord who installs a chain across a river that flows through his land and then hires a collector to charge passing boats a fee to lower the chain. There is nothing productive about the chain or the collector. The lord has made no improvements to the river and is not adding value in any way, directly or indirectly, except for himself. All he is doing is finding a way to make money from something that used to be free. From one of many deep looks at Lambda [1]: > Lambda’s educational model hinges on student-contractors called Team Leads (TLs) — students who, two months into their education, defer another two months in order to become teaching assistants tasked with taking attendance, checking in with other students, and answering questions. These student-contractors are paid roughly $13 an hour and have only just learned the material they are then tasked with explaining to the next batch of students. One student told me he was given no training on how to be a TL and spent many hours on devising curriculum and exercises to help other students. Another student, Erica Thompson, told me that TLs “are hired on a Friday and start on Monday.” TLs are roughly analogous to graduate-student instructors at universities, but with far less experience with the material. I am not exaggerating: I am not interested in paying money, or promising away future money, or getting less than a $15/hr wage, for the privilege of regurgitating material to my fellow students. It sounds like a massive waste of everybody's time and money. Why do you defend these practices so ardently? Were you victimized by Lambda or something? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make... yes you need to pay for the education they give you. It's capped and time limited - so you know the max you'll pay and how long you may be paying up front. Not sure why you're mentioning unemployment benefits? Why would that be their job to do that for you? What's the problem?

juskrey 7y ago
The problem is we have no proof that they are better than no education (autodidactism) or even some other education, to begin with. And in crisis times they signal their courses give no edge over the job market by.. laying off their own people.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > The problem is we have no proof that they are better than no education (autodidactism) or even some other education, to begin with. Not really sure what you want here. They don't offer proof? When you buy a book do you demand 'proof' from the author that you'll learn something from it? What proof do universities offer? It's a service offered. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, don't. > And in crisis times they signal their courses give no edge over the job market by.. laying off their own people. These are employees, not students of their course, aren't they? And you having to lay people off due to reduced revenue doesn't say anything about the quality of their education anyway. I think you're just throwing random snide comments around that don't really make any sense.
  - juskrey 7y ago
    The book is a very cheap genuine option: it does not share your upside and has very limited downside (you pay limited price and can throw it out of the window at any time). Claiming slavish tax is the same, like Lambda does, is simply a fraud.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > you pay limited price and can throw it out of the window at any time Lambda School is also limited price as well. And you can 'throw your education out of the window' metaphorically, after you've paid the fee, any time you like. You also can't throw a book out of the window until you've paid the whole price of it. > Claiming slavish tax is the same, like Lambda does, is simply a fraud. It's just a fee for a service. It's not a tax. And there's no deception so it isn't fraud.
lidHanteyk 7y ago
It's not true that one needs to pay for a reasonable computer-science education. One can learn wholly online for the cost of Internet connectivity. The problem is that Lambda are vampires. Their model is completely superfluous. They do not add any value over self-assigned MIT lectures on Youtube. From what I have gathered, Lambda is the kind of setting where folks like me are supposed to show up and supplement the "teacher" and their lack of knowledge; normally, when I do that, I expect to be paid six figures per year.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > It's not true that one needs to pay for a reasonable computer-science education. Where on earth do you think I said that? > The problem is that Lambda are vampires. You're just resorting to abuse now.
  - lidHanteyk 7y ago
    Oh my. If you cannot read your own comments, then we aren't going to be able to have a conversation. You clearly implied in your earlier comment that education isn't free and that Lambda earns their keep. But is that the case? In formal jargon, which might not sound much better, Lambda is a rent-seeker [0]; they want to complicate an existing system (people teach themselves for free using freely-available materials and time) in order to extract money from the system. Quoting from [0]: > The classic example of rent-seeking, according to Robert Shiller, is that of a feudal lord who installs a chain across a river that flows through his land and then hires a collector to charge passing boats a fee to lower the chain. There is nothing productive about the chain or the collector. The lord has made no improvements to the river and is not adding value in any way, directly or indirectly, except for himself. All he is doing is finding a way to make money from something that used to be free. From one of many deep looks at Lambda [1]: > Lambda’s educational model hinges on student-contractors called Team Leads (TLs) — students who, two months into their education, defer another two months in order to become teaching assistants tasked with taking attendance, checking in with other students, and answering questions. These student-contractors are paid roughly $13 an hour and have only just learned the material they are then tasked with explaining to the next batch of students. One student told me he was given no training on how to be a TL and spent many hours on devising curriculum and exercises to help other students. Another student, Erica Thompson, told me that TLs “are hired on a Friday and start on Monday.” TLs are roughly analogous to graduate-student instructors at universities, but with far less experience with the material. I am not exaggerating: I am not interested in paying money, or promising away future money, or getting less than a $15/hr wage, for the privilege of regurgitating material to my fellow students. It sounds like a massive waste of everybody's time and money. Why do you defend these practices so ardently? Were you victimized by Lambda or something? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...