5 ms·

Why does it happen though? What's the motivation behind the credit card companies? As in, what's the ultimate reason for this?

csunbird 7y ago
Operation Chokepoint
paxys 7y ago
There is a very large amount of chargebacks and fraud happening on adult sites.
- hef19898 7y ago
  Which sounds like an opportunity, doesn't it? Fraud free adult patreon.
  - paxys 7y ago
    It's not like every other adult site sells fraud as a feature. It's just really difficult and expensive to prevent. A single chargeback can cost the merchant up to $100 in fees.
  - _-0-_ 7y ago
    But how would you go about implementing insurances for the fraud-free part?
    - hef19898 7y ago
      That would be the product, right? Honestly, no idea. But IMHO an adult site that's secod purpose is not to spread malware and defraud people, while simultaniously making sure creators have a stable income should be a viable business.
    - ric2b 7y ago
      Just use crypto-currency and you don't need to worry about any chargebacks.
      - paxys 7y ago
        You also don't need to worry about customers since there won't be any.
michaelt 7y ago
I've heard it said that porn tends to have a large amount of chargebacks. There would also, presumably, be a fear of censorship targeting your entire company for over a subset of content. Back in 2018 Tumblr was blocked from Apple's app store [1] and responded by banning all adult content on the service [2] - and I'm sure there's a similar risk from school/workplace/ISP NSFW blocking services which are of course famous for over-reach. Obviously, tumblr could have shifted everything NSFW to nsfwtumblr.com but for various reasons, a lot of sites seem to take a deniable 'turn-a-blind-eye' approach rather than visibly embracing NSFW content. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/20/18104366/tumblr-ios-app-child-pornography-removed-from-app-store https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/20/18104366/tumblr-ios-app-... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/3/18123752/tumblr-adult-content-porn-ban-date-explicit-changes-why-safe-mode https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/3/18123752/tumblr-adult-con...
- tomp 7y ago
  > Obviously, tumblr could have shifted everything NSFW to nsfwtumblr.com Or just kept using their web page?? I'm pretty sure that I can still access NSFW content in Safari. I never understood what's the point of website-specific apps - like HN app or Reddit app or even Facebook & Twitter app - except of course some middle manager's quest for promotion.
  - nikanj 7y ago
    Apps get access to a lot more data than the browser does.
    - tomp 7y ago
      Indeed, it's profitable for the developers (leeching users' data) but not the users.
      - slfnflctd 7y ago
        Agreed. In my experience, the apps usually have a far worse UI than the websites. Often worse performance, too.
jariel 7y ago
Aside from the credit issue, nobody wants to be associated with a porn site. Would you launch your new line of e-books on a site that is 95% porn and well known for porn? No. If you're a porn site, then you're pretty much going to be just that, it's its own content vertical, fairly distinguished from everything else.
- phreack 7y ago
  I mean, if Patreon provided a good service and the porn was hidden away under the default filter and not visible from my subsite or the homepage, I don't see at all why I wouldn't launch a product on it if I decided the business model was a good fit.
- detaro 7y ago
  Patreon is relatively safe in that regard: They don't have much focus on discovery, no ad-placement to worry about, ... People interact with it primarily through deep links to invididual creators pages, so the "neighborhood" is less relevant. They've always been far from being a "porn site".
  - jariel 7y ago
    The answer to all 3 responses is 'perception' less so 'what happens on the site' although they are related. Amazon is not known for porn. I didn't even know you could get porn there. Certainly, it's not 'online porn' which I would imagine would be the primary issue. Tumblr became a place known for adult content so it was a problem. If Amazon started to do a lot of digital porn, like PornHub, it would be a problem. If there is no 'search' on Patreon ... maybe they could keep it hidden. But it's a big risk.
- markus92 7y ago
  There's plenty of adult stuff sold on Amazon yet I still would like to sell my new line of e-books there.

csunbird 7y ago

Operation Chokepoint

paxys 7y ago

There is a very large amount of chargebacks and fraud happening on adult sites.

hef19898 7y ago
Which sounds like an opportunity, doesn't it? Fraud free adult patreon.
- paxys 7y ago
  It's not like every other adult site sells fraud as a feature. It's just really difficult and expensive to prevent. A single chargeback can cost the merchant up to $100 in fees.
- _-0-_ 7y ago
  But how would you go about implementing insurances for the fraud-free part?
  - hef19898 7y ago
    That would be the product, right? Honestly, no idea. But IMHO an adult site that's secod purpose is not to spread malware and defraud people, while simultaniously making sure creators have a stable income should be a viable business.
  - ric2b 7y ago
    Just use crypto-currency and you don't need to worry about any chargebacks.
    - paxys 7y ago
      You also don't need to worry about customers since there won't be any.

michaelt 7y ago

I've heard it said that porn tends to have a large amount of chargebacks. There would also, presumably, be a fear of censorship targeting your entire company for over a subset of content. Back in 2018 Tumblr was blocked from Apple's app store [1] and responded by banning all adult content on the service [2] - and I'm sure there's a similar risk from school/workplace/ISP NSFW blocking services which are of course famous for over-reach. Obviously, tumblr could have shifted everything NSFW to nsfwtumblr.com but for various reasons, a lot of sites seem to take a deniable 'turn-a-blind-eye' approach rather than visibly embracing NSFW content. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/20/18104366/tumblr-ios-app-child-pornography-removed-from-app-store https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/20/18104366/tumblr-ios-app-... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/3/18123752/tumblr-adult-content-porn-ban-date-explicit-changes-why-safe-mode https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/3/18123752/tumblr-adult-con...

tomp 7y ago
> Obviously, tumblr could have shifted everything NSFW to nsfwtumblr.com Or just kept using their web page?? I'm pretty sure that I can still access NSFW content in Safari. I never understood what's the point of website-specific apps - like HN app or Reddit app or even Facebook & Twitter app - except of course some middle manager's quest for promotion.
- nikanj 7y ago
  Apps get access to a lot more data than the browser does.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Indeed, it's profitable for the developers (leeching users' data) but not the users.
    - slfnflctd 7y ago
      Agreed. In my experience, the apps usually have a far worse UI than the websites. Often worse performance, too.

jariel 7y ago

Aside from the credit issue, nobody wants to be associated with a porn site. Would you launch your new line of e-books on a site that is 95% porn and well known for porn? No. If you're a porn site, then you're pretty much going to be just that, it's its own content vertical, fairly distinguished from everything else.

phreack 7y ago
I mean, if Patreon provided a good service and the porn was hidden away under the default filter and not visible from my subsite or the homepage, I don't see at all why I wouldn't launch a product on it if I decided the business model was a good fit.
detaro 7y ago
Patreon is relatively safe in that regard: They don't have much focus on discovery, no ad-placement to worry about, ... People interact with it primarily through deep links to invididual creators pages, so the "neighborhood" is less relevant. They've always been far from being a "porn site".
- jariel 7y ago
  The answer to all 3 responses is 'perception' less so 'what happens on the site' although they are related. Amazon is not known for porn. I didn't even know you could get porn there. Certainly, it's not 'online porn' which I would imagine would be the primary issue. Tumblr became a place known for adult content so it was a problem. If Amazon started to do a lot of digital porn, like PornHub, it would be a problem. If there is no 'search' on Patreon ... maybe they could keep it hidden. But it's a big risk.
markus92 7y ago
There's plenty of adult stuff sold on Amazon yet I still would like to sell my new line of e-books there.