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Does anyone really buy that E2E encrypted stuff coming from big software companies? I don’t see any reason why someone would believe that without seeing the sou

Does anyone really buy that E2E encrypted stuff coming from big software companies? I don’t see any reason why someone would believe that without seeing the source-code and letting people host their own servers.

mav3rick 6y ago
All our friends and parents should now run their own servers.
- poisonborz 6y ago
  Yes, why not? It could be as simple as plugging a box to a wall and having a quick setup, like a router.
  - mav3rick 6y ago
    Let's continue to engage because I want to screenshot this for posterity - So if you want to video chat with your parents, you will buy them a server and a phone ? Then when the server will fail, you will go to their house to fix it ? (Remember you can't video chat now)
    - smabie 6y ago
      There's no reason you couldn't do p2p video chat. Now you just need the phone (which you already need the way things work now).
  - notatoad 6y ago
    have you ever tried to walk a non-technical friend or relative through setting up a router? "as simple as setting up a router" means it's too complicated for ~90% of people.
    - poisonborz 6y ago
      Have you tried modern consumer routers recently? It's far simpler and faster than eg. a start-up setup wizard of a smartphone.
      - notatoad 6y ago
        i have, and i agree that they've gotten really good. but my customers are still completely lost when they have to interact with theirs in any way. No matter how good the UI is, it still requires a mental model of how a router works (for example: the internet comes into your house on a wire, the box turns it into wifi, which comes out the antennas) that a lot of people just don't have. There's an understanding that there's a box with blinky lights and without it there's no internet. You can't assume people understand anything beyond that.
joshuamorton 6y ago
What reason does Google, apple, or Facebook have to lie? What is the threat model that starts with "we claim to e2e encrypt traffic but don't so that..."? Storing all the video isn't feasible, not is analyzing it in real time, so the only sensible threat model is targeted attacks, but the companies have no reason to do that. Governments do, but this makes the companies resistant to governments.
- aaaxyz 6y ago
  > Storing all the video isn't feasible, not is analyzing it in real time, so the only sensible threat model is targeted attacks, but the companies have no reason to do that. Governments do, but this makes the companies resistant to governments. Analyzing the audio stream of a video call is possible in real time, in fact Google meet already does it to offer closed captioning in real time (the only good feature meet has compared to other alternatives)

mav3rick 6y ago

All our friends and parents should now run their own servers.

poisonborz 6y ago
Yes, why not? It could be as simple as plugging a box to a wall and having a quick setup, like a router.
- mav3rick 6y ago
  Let's continue to engage because I want to screenshot this for posterity - So if you want to video chat with your parents, you will buy them a server and a phone ? Then when the server will fail, you will go to their house to fix it ? (Remember you can't video chat now)
  - smabie 6y ago
    There's no reason you couldn't do p2p video chat. Now you just need the phone (which you already need the way things work now).
- notatoad 6y ago
  have you ever tried to walk a non-technical friend or relative through setting up a router? "as simple as setting up a router" means it's too complicated for ~90% of people.
  - poisonborz 6y ago
    Have you tried modern consumer routers recently? It's far simpler and faster than eg. a start-up setup wizard of a smartphone.
    - notatoad 6y ago
      i have, and i agree that they've gotten really good. but my customers are still completely lost when they have to interact with theirs in any way. No matter how good the UI is, it still requires a mental model of how a router works (for example: the internet comes into your house on a wire, the box turns it into wifi, which comes out the antennas) that a lot of people just don't have. There's an understanding that there's a box with blinky lights and without it there's no internet. You can't assume people understand anything beyond that.

joshuamorton 6y ago

What reason does Google, apple, or Facebook have to lie? What is the threat model that starts with "we claim to e2e encrypt traffic but don't so that..."? Storing all the video isn't feasible, not is analyzing it in real time, so the only sensible threat model is targeted attacks, but the companies have no reason to do that. Governments do, but this makes the companies resistant to governments.

aaaxyz 6y ago
> Storing all the video isn't feasible, not is analyzing it in real time, so the only sensible threat model is targeted attacks, but the companies have no reason to do that. Governments do, but this makes the companies resistant to governments. Analyzing the audio stream of a video call is possible in real time, in fact Google meet already does it to offer closed captioning in real time (the only good feature meet has compared to other alternatives)