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I can get an 8-port gigabit switch for $15 on sale. Where is my dirt cheap 10G switch? Also "PoE" uses more power because it's actually powering a separate dev

by Klinky 7y ago

I can get an 8-port gigabit switch for $15 on sale. Where is my dirt cheap 10G switch? Also "PoE" uses more power because it's actually powering a separate device entirely, that's not related to the 10G IC power consumption.

MR4D 7y ago
Your comment piqued my interest, so I decided to look it up and find out how much these cost. (I only have 1G, so thought it might be a chance to upgrade.) Plus, it's a chance to open up the conversation a bit... This was the first non-ad link I found on Google when searching for "10G switch": https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Ethernet-Unmanaged-Rackmount-Protection/dp/B075Q5C3Z4 https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Ethernet-Unmanaged-Rackmount-... $349 Not dirt cheap, but less than I had thought. YMMV on "cheap" or "dirt-cheap", so just sharing for a more robust conversation.
- FullyFunctional 7y ago
  Just above in the thread: CRS305-1G-4S+IN. 4 SFP port switch for $150. I had to mount a 10G (SFP) card in a Thunderbold 3 PCIe box to get my iMac on the 10G net, lame that it's not native.
windexh8er 7y ago
Dirt cheap with respect to pricing only a few years ago. Keep in mind comparing a 4 x 10Gb SFP+ switch with an 8 port discount switch are apples and oranges. The former provides L3 support per port and L2 functionality such as VLAN tagging. The discount switch is likely oversubscribed on the backplane (cheap switch controller) and is almost surely unmanaged. You also have to consider the savings of 10Gb - each port is not just 10 x 1Gb, but a full 10Gb lane. If you calculate the cost per Gb comparing a discount switch (8 x 1Gb switch) with a discount 10Gb switch (4 x 10Gb) - yes, it does cost more. But for anyone who wants or needs to move large files or data at home 10Gb isn't considerably more expensive. You pay $15 for 8 ports of 1Gb @ $1.87 per Gb where as that 10Gb switch you're paying around $143 for 4 ports of 10Gb @ $3.57 per Gb. So the cost factor is about 2x, but then again - L3, L2, manageability, etc are all constraints the discount switch can't compete with either. To each their own, but putting the cost of 10Gb in perspective of what it takes to move the same bandwidth with a 1Gb switch (requires LAG capabilities and even then you'd still end up short). As for power - a typical optical 10Gb-SR will be power draw listed at 1W (PHY would draw less). It would appear to me that the power aspect is a moot point.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  The thing is, I want the metaphorical 10Gb apple to compare to the discount switch apple. I don't care about the backplane being oversubscribed, and being managed is an antifeature for my home network. I want something that works exactly like my gigabit switch, but faster. Like the difference between a fast ethernet switch and a gigabit switch.
- Klinky 7y ago
  Most consumers do not have optical infrastructure, nor need L3/L2 management functionality, and most probably don't need 10G speeds. Likely the cost-per-port results in additional enterprise features being added to enterprise-grade products to justify the cost increase. 10GBASE-T likely cannot compete at commodity level pricing, as removing all the bells and whistles still results in 10x per port cost increase. However it seems a dumb 10GBase-T switch seems rare/non-existant, so we're left with options that are 20 - 30x the cost. You could say there is value in the bulk bandwidth available, but 30x is 30x, and needs considered justification, rather than being a "no brainer". Most of the power concerns are related to 10GBASE-T, and it may only be few watts difference, but that could make a difference for mobile devices, and there is also cost per transceiver. Again practically no laptop or consumer motherboard is coming with an SFP port, and 10GBASE-T IC could be 10x the cost of a 1000BASE-T. 2.5GBASE-T is starting to show up on some consumer-level devices though.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- buran77 7y ago
  > Dirt cheap with respect to pricing only a few years ago Let's be honest, you don't buy things because they're cheaper than they used to be. You look at what you need and compare with what you have to see if the "extras" justify the purchase. I bought two used 40G cards and one used 48x10G(RJ45) + 4x40G(QSFP+) switch for ~1300E. Which is a lot less than I would have paid just a few years ago. Still 2 orders of magnitude above what most people care to pay for home use. And I'm sure this hasn't convinced you to upgrade. Regular consumers, with no particular technical inclination or passion for specialized tech probably outnumber enthusiasts 100:1. For them not having fancy features to worry about is the feature. Sure, gimme a super fast connection, who knows when I need it. But make sure it doesn't cost more or require more effort in maintaining than what I have now. > But for anyone who wants or needs to move large files or data at home I guess this is the crux of the matter. Not many do in a world of mobile and streaming. Just think of how many systems are still sold every day with drives that have no chance of being close to saturating such a pipe. I agree with your reasoning to go for it because I used the same one (only I went further because if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing). But the market does not agree, demand is still quite low since the extras don't justify the purchase for all but the early adopters who slowly drag the price down. Until I see a 10G port in a mainstream ISP router, the "revolution" will only happen in techie households.

by Klinky 7y ago

MR4D 7y ago

Your comment piqued my interest, so I decided to look it up and find out how much these cost. (I only have 1G, so thought it might be a chance to upgrade.) Plus, it's a chance to open up the conversation a bit... This was the first non-ad link I found on Google when searching for "10G switch": https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Ethernet-Unmanaged-Rackmount-Protection/dp/B075Q5C3Z4 https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Ethernet-Unmanaged-Rackmount-... $349 Not dirt cheap, but less than I had thought. YMMV on "cheap" or "dirt-cheap", so just sharing for a more robust conversation.

FullyFunctional 7y ago
Just above in the thread: CRS305-1G-4S+IN. 4 SFP port switch for $150. I had to mount a 10G (SFP) card in a Thunderbold 3 PCIe box to get my iMac on the 10G net, lame that it's not native.

windexh8er 7y ago

Dirt cheap with respect to pricing only a few years ago. Keep in mind comparing a 4 x 10Gb SFP+ switch with an 8 port discount switch are apples and oranges. The former provides L3 support per port and L2 functionality such as VLAN tagging. The discount switch is likely oversubscribed on the backplane (cheap switch controller) and is almost surely unmanaged. You also have to consider the savings of 10Gb - each port is not just 10 x 1Gb, but a full 10Gb lane. If you calculate the cost per Gb comparing a discount switch (8 x 1Gb switch) with a discount 10Gb switch (4 x 10Gb) - yes, it does cost more. But for anyone who wants or needs to move large files or data at home 10Gb isn't considerably more expensive. You pay $15 for 8 ports of 1Gb @ $1.87 per Gb where as that 10Gb switch you're paying around $143 for 4 ports of 10Gb @ $3.57 per Gb. So the cost factor is about 2x, but then again - L3, L2, manageability, etc are all constraints the discount switch can't compete with either. To each their own, but putting the cost of 10Gb in perspective of what it takes to move the same bandwidth with a 1Gb switch (requires LAG capabilities and even then you'd still end up short). As for power - a typical optical 10Gb-SR will be power draw listed at 1W (PHY would draw less). It would appear to me that the power aspect is a moot point.

Marsymars 7y ago
The thing is, I want the metaphorical 10Gb apple to compare to the discount switch apple. I don't care about the backplane being oversubscribed, and being managed is an antifeature for my home network. I want something that works exactly like my gigabit switch, but faster. Like the difference between a fast ethernet switch and a gigabit switch.
Klinky 7y ago
Most consumers do not have optical infrastructure, nor need L3/L2 management functionality, and most probably don't need 10G speeds. Likely the cost-per-port results in additional enterprise features being added to enterprise-grade products to justify the cost increase. 10GBASE-T likely cannot compete at commodity level pricing, as removing all the bells and whistles still results in 10x per port cost increase. However it seems a dumb 10GBase-T switch seems rare/non-existant, so we're left with options that are 20 - 30x the cost. You could say there is value in the bulk bandwidth available, but 30x is 30x, and needs considered justification, rather than being a "no brainer". Most of the power concerns are related to 10GBASE-T, and it may only be few watts difference, but that could make a difference for mobile devices, and there is also cost per transceiver. Again practically no laptop or consumer motherboard is coming with an SFP port, and 10GBASE-T IC could be 10x the cost of a 1000BASE-T. 2.5GBASE-T is starting to show up on some consumer-level devices though.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
buran77 7y ago
> Dirt cheap with respect to pricing only a few years ago Let's be honest, you don't buy things because they're cheaper than they used to be. You look at what you need and compare with what you have to see if the "extras" justify the purchase. I bought two used 40G cards and one used 48x10G(RJ45) + 4x40G(QSFP+) switch for ~1300E. Which is a lot less than I would have paid just a few years ago. Still 2 orders of magnitude above what most people care to pay for home use. And I'm sure this hasn't convinced you to upgrade. Regular consumers, with no particular technical inclination or passion for specialized tech probably outnumber enthusiasts 100:1. For them not having fancy features to worry about is the feature. Sure, gimme a super fast connection, who knows when I need it. But make sure it doesn't cost more or require more effort in maintaining than what I have now. > But for anyone who wants or needs to move large files or data at home I guess this is the crux of the matter. Not many do in a world of mobile and streaming. Just think of how many systems are still sold every day with drives that have no chance of being close to saturating such a pipe. I agree with your reasoning to go for it because I used the same one (only I went further because if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing). But the market does not agree, demand is still quite low since the extras don't justify the purchase for all but the early adopters who slowly drag the price down. Until I see a 10G port in a mainstream ISP router, the "revolution" will only happen in techie households.