6 ms·

> At least 1 person has died. Far more people have died from the right hook, it's biking's "most feared crash." You have to constantly watch out for oblivious

by MiroF 7y ago

> At least 1 person has died. Far more people have died from the right hook, it's biking's "most feared crash." You have to constantly watch out for oblivious drivers.

mauvehaus 7y ago
Speaking as a cyclist, it's extremely uncommon that you have to put yourself in a position that you can be right hooked. Cyclists need to educate themselves about road safety and take a share of the responsibility for their own safety. What really pisses me off about this is that the only time people discuss the safety of cyclists is in the wake of a fatal crash. If you dare to suggest that cyclists often have choices that can prevent the crash, you get called out for victim blaming. It's bullshit to shut down discussion of things people can do to protect themselves because of some misguided respect for the dead. For goodness' sake talk about it so people on the streets are armed with the knowledge that will save their lives so we aren't having the same discussion again and again and again. It doesn't matter what the law says, it doesn't matter who had the right to occupy that bit of the road, it matters that cyclists keep dying because they're the more vulnerable road user. It's naive to think that we're going to train every driver to do the safe thing. It's far more realistic to educate the people with the most to lose (i.e. the cyclists) to do the safe thing regardless of whether the drivers around them are aware of them or not.
- MiroF 7y ago
  > it's extremely uncommon that you have to put yourself in a position that you can be right hooked I'm not so sure. I think there are definitely things to do that can make you avoid the vast majority of these incidents (don't bike to the right of a car when an intersection is coming up if you can avoid, obviously look at the car's turn signals before passing them on the right, pass on the left when you think someone will turn right, etc.), but there are plenty of instances where it is not avoidable and even experienced cyclists can get right-hooked (like biking on a bike lane on a heavily trafficked road with many side streets to turn off of). > It's naive to think that we're going to train every driver to do the safe thing. I think it's not an either-or. I don't think that we have to throw in the towel on every effort to change behavior - people have been convinced to stop littering to a massive extent, checking your right mirror seems minor in comparison.
  - mauvehaus 7y ago
    > like biking on a bike lane on a heavily trafficked road with many side streets to turn off of With the caveat that my experience is not your experience, I respectfully submit that the bike lane is poorly designed in this case and that it shouldn't be used to travel straight through the intersection in this case. I signal a lane-change to the left before the intersection and go straight through in the regular traffic lane, moving right ASAP after the intersection to not obstruct traffic. My riding is mostly dense urban where traffic is moving slowly enough to do this if I put some hustle into it. > I think it's not an either-or. I don't think that we have to throw in the towel on every effort to change behavior. I am absolutely in agreement that it's not either-or, but if cyclists are doing something that's (almost) always safe, they're a lot less likely to be killed by the untrained drivers, of which there will be many for the foreseeable future. What I do doesn't work for cyclists puttering along at 10mph (or grinding up a hill); the speed difference is too great to safely merge left. Training the drivers greatly increases the safety level for such cyclists on roads with cycle lanes between the regular lanes and the curb.
    - MiroF 7y ago
      This is fair, and what you do is essentially the same as what I do and I am also mostly biking in urban cores. That said, I think that we can't just place the onus on bikers to both ignore the drawn on bike lane lines and also to bike considerably faster than they are comfortable without trying to also change driver behavior. I think this mostly agrees with your last point.
      - mauvehaus 7y ago
        On the off chance you check back on the thread, please be safe out there. I just saw the news about the fatal crash on universalhub :-(
- loeg 7y ago
  Right hooks mostly happen when a cyclist is overtaking a car on the right hand side. This entire class of collision can be avoided by not passing on the right. If you see a car slowing down mysteriously, even if it is not signalling, assume it will try to kill you and keep your distance. (I've ridden about 800 miles by bicycle so far this year, and >4000 total since I started using a GPS. No right hooks or right-hook close calls.)

by MiroF 7y ago

> At least 1 person has died. Far more people have died from the right hook, it's biking's "most feared crash." You have to constantly watch out for oblivious drivers.

mauvehaus 7y ago

Speaking as a cyclist, it's extremely uncommon that you have to put yourself in a position that you can be right hooked. Cyclists need to educate themselves about road safety and take a share of the responsibility for their own safety. What really pisses me off about this is that the only time people discuss the safety of cyclists is in the wake of a fatal crash. If you dare to suggest that cyclists often have choices that can prevent the crash, you get called out for victim blaming. It's bullshit to shut down discussion of things people can do to protect themselves because of some misguided respect for the dead. For goodness' sake talk about it so people on the streets are armed with the knowledge that will save their lives so we aren't having the same discussion again and again and again. It doesn't matter what the law says, it doesn't matter who had the right to occupy that bit of the road, it matters that cyclists keep dying because they're the more vulnerable road user. It's naive to think that we're going to train every driver to do the safe thing. It's far more realistic to educate the people with the most to lose (i.e. the cyclists) to do the safe thing regardless of whether the drivers around them are aware of them or not.

MiroF 7y ago
> it's extremely uncommon that you have to put yourself in a position that you can be right hooked I'm not so sure. I think there are definitely things to do that can make you avoid the vast majority of these incidents (don't bike to the right of a car when an intersection is coming up if you can avoid, obviously look at the car's turn signals before passing them on the right, pass on the left when you think someone will turn right, etc.), but there are plenty of instances where it is not avoidable and even experienced cyclists can get right-hooked (like biking on a bike lane on a heavily trafficked road with many side streets to turn off of). > It's naive to think that we're going to train every driver to do the safe thing. I think it's not an either-or. I don't think that we have to throw in the towel on every effort to change behavior - people have been convinced to stop littering to a massive extent, checking your right mirror seems minor in comparison.
- mauvehaus 7y ago
  > like biking on a bike lane on a heavily trafficked road with many side streets to turn off of With the caveat that my experience is not your experience, I respectfully submit that the bike lane is poorly designed in this case and that it shouldn't be used to travel straight through the intersection in this case. I signal a lane-change to the left before the intersection and go straight through in the regular traffic lane, moving right ASAP after the intersection to not obstruct traffic. My riding is mostly dense urban where traffic is moving slowly enough to do this if I put some hustle into it. > I think it's not an either-or. I don't think that we have to throw in the towel on every effort to change behavior. I am absolutely in agreement that it's not either-or, but if cyclists are doing something that's (almost) always safe, they're a lot less likely to be killed by the untrained drivers, of which there will be many for the foreseeable future. What I do doesn't work for cyclists puttering along at 10mph (or grinding up a hill); the speed difference is too great to safely merge left. Training the drivers greatly increases the safety level for such cyclists on roads with cycle lanes between the regular lanes and the curb.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    This is fair, and what you do is essentially the same as what I do and I am also mostly biking in urban cores. That said, I think that we can't just place the onus on bikers to both ignore the drawn on bike lane lines and also to bike considerably faster than they are comfortable without trying to also change driver behavior. I think this mostly agrees with your last point.
    - mauvehaus 7y ago
      On the off chance you check back on the thread, please be safe out there. I just saw the news about the fatal crash on universalhub :-(
loeg 7y ago
Right hooks mostly happen when a cyclist is overtaking a car on the right hand side. This entire class of collision can be avoided by not passing on the right. If you see a car slowing down mysteriously, even if it is not signalling, assume it will try to kill you and keep your distance. (I've ridden about 800 miles by bicycle so far this year, and >4000 total since I started using a GPS. No right hooks or right-hook close calls.)