5 ms·

I have had an X2 since last summer. Some points: The hub motor is excellent. It gives you all-wheel drive which is a bit odd in a bicycle and can catch you out

by vr46 7y ago

I have had an X2 since last summer. Some points: The hub motor is excellent. It gives you all-wheel drive which is a bit odd in a bicycle and can catch you out in very slippery conditions (mud on paved towpath by side of river, this is slippery for every bike and every foot, but the front-wheel drive can cause an extra slide). The battery lasts well. I don’t always need it hiked to full power (setting 4) and am happy to ride it at anything from 1-3. There is a boost button that provides extra oomph for climbing hills or getting away quickly. It’s not crazy heavy. It’s a properly vertically-integrated e-bike where everything is designed together and works together. If you want a bicycle with a motor and battery bolted-on, there’s plenty of alternatives. The service has been excellent from VanMoof and the only flaw is that the rear mudguard somehow doesn’t work and my entire back is covered in mud on a wet ride. I paid full-price and it is an outstanding bicycle. I imagine the S3/X3 will be even better. I resisted the chance to buy one of those early.

londons_explore 7y ago
Lack of regen braking is a bit of a downer... As is no ability to 'mod' it for higher speeds (the engine completely cuts out at ~22mph). Its weight and limited power and speed means that in a drag race with a similar strength rider against a non-electric bike, it will lose off the line and remain slower for a half mile or so until the riders get tired. It is the tortoise in the race of the hare and tortoise.
- mft_ 7y ago
  I totally disagree with your point around power and weight. In my experience (as a decently fit regular rider riding a lightweight city bike in a city with a big cycling culture and lots of e-bikes around) the only time I don’t get toasted by an e-bike is if the rider chooses not to. Many basic e-bikes have 250w motors; the Vanmoof’s is apparently more powerful. 250w plus a little extra from the rider is a significant amount of power to put out, in riding terms. Putting out ~300w for more than a few seconds is likely beyond the abilities of most commuting riders. More serious regular riders could likely do it for some minutes, but usually wouldn’t want to do so, dressed in office gear, on a commute. Last data point: my girlfriend has a big heavy e-MTB with a 250w motor. I have to work hard on a high end CF road bike to keep up out of junctions. Off the line, with the immediacy of the motors power, is actually one of the big advantages.
  - steve19 7y ago
    Do you have a powermeter on your CF bike? If not get one. Apart from being the ultimate training aid, you might find your gf is putting out more watts than bike's manual claims it is. Clipless pedals may help as well allowing faster acceleration by putting more power into the initial pedal stroke. I would say the average commuter can put out 300w for 10 seconds. They would hate it but everytime you see a commuter straining up a hill, they are putting that kind of wattage. In practice they probably don't because they don't like the strain.
    - mft_ 7y ago
      I have a power-meter on one of my road bikes, but not on the one I keep at her place and have ridden against the e-MTB. I know my legs well enough to know I'm putting out well over 250w (probably closer to 400 for a few seconds) if I want to keep up with her initial acceleration. I've been a clipless pedal user for about 25 years now :)
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      Then the average e-bike rider could put out 300w + 250w for 10 seconds. In reality the wattage is nominal, I'm pretty sure the Bosch motor on my bike is peaking at closer to 500w. The manufacturers don't seem to take these figures that seriously unlike the maximum speed cutoff.
      - steve19 7y ago
        Very good point about peak wattage.
- ppf 7y ago
  > Lack of regen braking is a bit of a downer... The mass of a bicycle and rider is relatively low, so there just isn't much energy to recover. It's not worth the more expensive motor and controller required to do it. https://www.pandaebikes.com/regen-braking-ebikes-worth/ https://www.pandaebikes.com/regen-braking-ebikes-worth/
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    All ebikes on the market today already have the hardware for regen. You simply need to reflash the motor controller firmware to one which shifts the phase of the current by 180 degrees in the motor windings, and suddenly you're regen-ing. It can be as simple as a simple minus sign in the firmware source code, if only you had access to it!. Some ebikes have firmware mods to do it - others not so much. The main added difficulty is you can't recharge batteries too fast - and typical braking would produce too much power, and damage the batteries. If you didn't want to destroy your batteries, your regen would have to be pretty tame - more of a "gentle resistance" than "braking".

by vr46 7y ago

londons_explore 7y ago

Lack of regen braking is a bit of a downer... As is no ability to 'mod' it for higher speeds (the engine completely cuts out at ~22mph). Its weight and limited power and speed means that in a drag race with a similar strength rider against a non-electric bike, it will lose off the line and remain slower for a half mile or so until the riders get tired. It is the tortoise in the race of the hare and tortoise.

mft_ 7y ago
I totally disagree with your point around power and weight. In my experience (as a decently fit regular rider riding a lightweight city bike in a city with a big cycling culture and lots of e-bikes around) the only time I don’t get toasted by an e-bike is if the rider chooses not to. Many basic e-bikes have 250w motors; the Vanmoof’s is apparently more powerful. 250w plus a little extra from the rider is a significant amount of power to put out, in riding terms. Putting out ~300w for more than a few seconds is likely beyond the abilities of most commuting riders. More serious regular riders could likely do it for some minutes, but usually wouldn’t want to do so, dressed in office gear, on a commute. Last data point: my girlfriend has a big heavy e-MTB with a 250w motor. I have to work hard on a high end CF road bike to keep up out of junctions. Off the line, with the immediacy of the motors power, is actually one of the big advantages.
- steve19 7y ago
  Do you have a powermeter on your CF bike? If not get one. Apart from being the ultimate training aid, you might find your gf is putting out more watts than bike's manual claims it is. Clipless pedals may help as well allowing faster acceleration by putting more power into the initial pedal stroke. I would say the average commuter can put out 300w for 10 seconds. They would hate it but everytime you see a commuter straining up a hill, they are putting that kind of wattage. In practice they probably don't because they don't like the strain.
  - mft_ 7y ago
    I have a power-meter on one of my road bikes, but not on the one I keep at her place and have ridden against the e-MTB. I know my legs well enough to know I'm putting out well over 250w (probably closer to 400 for a few seconds) if I want to keep up with her initial acceleration. I've been a clipless pedal user for about 25 years now :)
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Then the average e-bike rider could put out 300w + 250w for 10 seconds. In reality the wattage is nominal, I'm pretty sure the Bosch motor on my bike is peaking at closer to 500w. The manufacturers don't seem to take these figures that seriously unlike the maximum speed cutoff.
    - steve19 7y ago
      Very good point about peak wattage.
ppf 7y ago
> Lack of regen braking is a bit of a downer... The mass of a bicycle and rider is relatively low, so there just isn't much energy to recover. It's not worth the more expensive motor and controller required to do it. https://www.pandaebikes.com/regen-braking-ebikes-worth/ https://www.pandaebikes.com/regen-braking-ebikes-worth/
- londons_explore 7y ago
  All ebikes on the market today already have the hardware for regen. You simply need to reflash the motor controller firmware to one which shifts the phase of the current by 180 degrees in the motor windings, and suddenly you're regen-ing. It can be as simple as a simple minus sign in the firmware source code, if only you had access to it!. Some ebikes have firmware mods to do it - others not so much. The main added difficulty is you can't recharge batteries too fast - and typical braking would produce too much power, and damage the batteries. If you didn't want to destroy your batteries, your regen would have to be pretty tame - more of a "gentle resistance" than "braking".