4 ms·

> It seems the craftsmanship aspect of computer programming is getting lost, and all that remains is the large leverage that one can use to drive profits with s

> It seems the craftsmanship aspect of computer programming is getting lost, and all that remains is the large leverage that one can use to drive profits with software. Too many lazy/greedy developers fighting against users and operating systems (coughelectroncough)

inform880 7y ago
I understand that Electron apps tend to be a resource hog, but what other options for software create as many cross platform opportunities with as much work? I think for every single greedy developer/company there's another small software project only able to get off the ground because of the maximized opportunities. This is coming from a relatively new full time developer who's trying to get a small side project off the ground.
- Razengan 7y ago
  This is also partially the fault of the operating system companies for not making native development as easy and portable as it should be. Things like SwiftUI and the upcoming "clips" (or whatever the iOS/Android "partial/temporary apps" tech is going to be called) are a step in a good direction.
  - swagonomixxx 7y ago
    Why should Apple care about portability of their Desktop apps to OS's like Windows? Native API's are almost by definition non-portable. That's why you need something like Qt to bridge the gap for you and provide a OS-agnostic API.
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  So much this. I began a configuration program for a desktop app recently, and it's taking months of spare time to get even a rudimentary UI with Qt. Electron or Qtwebview would probably only take a few hours for a web dev like myself. All that said desktop development is an interesting challenge, if sometimes maddening.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  > I understand that Electron apps tend to be a resource hog, but what other options for software create as many cross platform opportunities with as much work? Is laziness a good excuse for poor software? For wasting the time and resources of every one who uses the application? For disregarding the conventions of the host platform including any user preferences and accessibility features?
  - arvinsim 7y ago
    The flaw in your arguments is that good and fast software is usually not the main goal nor the priority of people who drive software aka businesses
  - inform880 7y ago
    > For wasting the time and resources of every one who uses the application? I don't believe this argument for a second, with the ubiquitousness of successful Electron apps.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      An application that takes longer to load, is slower, and consumes more CPU and RAM is by definition wasting the user's time and resources. The slow and bloated nature of Electron applications is griped about quite often. That people are required to use Slack for work doesn't change that.
- MaxBarraclough 7y ago
  JavaFX?
- robotnikman 7y ago
  Java is pretty good when it comes to being cross platform
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    No it isn't! Sure, you can run some sort of Java VM on a lot of platforms. That's no big distinction, you can say the same about Javascript, Python, Lua and so on. Once you enter the realm of graphical applications, it's a clusterfuck, just like any other "cross-platform" thing.
    - mrguyorama 7y ago
      Does Swing not run pretty much the same on Mac, Linux, and Windows?
      - gridlockd 7y ago
        Yes, it sucks on all these platforms equally badly.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  All cross-platform solutions suck. At least consider writing one native client for every supported platform. Only support the platforms that your customer base truly needs. Focus on the most important platform first.
bitwize 7y ago
Electron is the future. Why? Developers would rather spend more of your computer's time (and other resources) than their own time. And most end users -- e.g., people who work in a Slack-based business and so NEED the Slack app -- consider the tradeoff worth it.
- p_l 7y ago
  Or, more likely, don't have an option nor a real voice.
- fomine3 7y ago
  PWA should be the future for apps that don't need much permissions. Why we need individual Chromium for just chat app?
diegoperini 7y ago
Or maybe software is just more widespread than before and it's no longer an exercise practiced by a few selected (by hard-work, luck, you name it) "experts". It is completely understandable if these new wave of developers care their time budget more than efficient hardware utilization. This is the tendency for any craft that gains popularity over time. We can only advocate best practices by making them accessible, approachable and applicable. We can then hope the crowd listens and if they don't, that's ok, it's their loss (or not if their audience doesn't care). A good analogy is, you don't have to build an earthquake resistant building if you are gonna use it to store some metal junk (carpenter tools, gardening tools etc). It's not a house and there is no danger even if you live on top of an active fault line.

inform880 7y ago

I understand that Electron apps tend to be a resource hog, but what other options for software create as many cross platform opportunities with as much work? I think for every single greedy developer/company there's another small software project only able to get off the ground because of the maximized opportunities. This is coming from a relatively new full time developer who's trying to get a small side project off the ground.

Razengan 7y ago
This is also partially the fault of the operating system companies for not making native development as easy and portable as it should be. Things like SwiftUI and the upcoming "clips" (or whatever the iOS/Android "partial/temporary apps" tech is going to be called) are a step in a good direction.
- swagonomixxx 7y ago
  Why should Apple care about portability of their Desktop apps to OS's like Windows? Native API's are almost by definition non-portable. That's why you need something like Qt to bridge the gap for you and provide a OS-agnostic API.
paulryanrogers 7y ago
So much this. I began a configuration program for a desktop app recently, and it's taking months of spare time to get even a rudimentary UI with Qt. Electron or Qtwebview would probably only take a few hours for a web dev like myself. All that said desktop development is an interesting challenge, if sometimes maddening.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> I understand that Electron apps tend to be a resource hog, but what other options for software create as many cross platform opportunities with as much work? Is laziness a good excuse for poor software? For wasting the time and resources of every one who uses the application? For disregarding the conventions of the host platform including any user preferences and accessibility features?
- arvinsim 7y ago
  The flaw in your arguments is that good and fast software is usually not the main goal nor the priority of people who drive software aka businesses
- inform880 7y ago
  > For wasting the time and resources of every one who uses the application? I don't believe this argument for a second, with the ubiquitousness of successful Electron apps.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    An application that takes longer to load, is slower, and consumes more CPU and RAM is by definition wasting the user's time and resources. The slow and bloated nature of Electron applications is griped about quite often. That people are required to use Slack for work doesn't change that.
MaxBarraclough 7y ago
JavaFX?
robotnikman 7y ago
Java is pretty good when it comes to being cross platform
- gridlockd 7y ago
  No it isn't! Sure, you can run some sort of Java VM on a lot of platforms. That's no big distinction, you can say the same about Javascript, Python, Lua and so on. Once you enter the realm of graphical applications, it's a clusterfuck, just like any other "cross-platform" thing.
  - mrguyorama 7y ago
    Does Swing not run pretty much the same on Mac, Linux, and Windows?
    - gridlockd 7y ago
      Yes, it sucks on all these platforms equally badly.
gridlockd 7y ago
All cross-platform solutions suck. At least consider writing one native client for every supported platform. Only support the platforms that your customer base truly needs. Focus on the most important platform first.

bitwize 7y ago

Electron is the future. Why? Developers would rather spend more of your computer's time (and other resources) than their own time. And most end users -- e.g., people who work in a Slack-based business and so NEED the Slack app -- consider the tradeoff worth it.

p_l 7y ago
Or, more likely, don't have an option nor a real voice.
fomine3 7y ago
PWA should be the future for apps that don't need much permissions. Why we need individual Chromium for just chat app?

diegoperini 7y ago

Or maybe software is just more widespread than before and it's no longer an exercise practiced by a few selected (by hard-work, luck, you name it) "experts". It is completely understandable if these new wave of developers care their time budget more than efficient hardware utilization. This is the tendency for any craft that gains popularity over time. We can only advocate best practices by making them accessible, approachable and applicable. We can then hope the crowd listens and if they don't, that's ok, it's their loss (or not if their audience doesn't care). A good analogy is, you don't have to build an earthquake resistant building if you are gonna use it to store some metal junk (carpenter tools, gardening tools etc). It's not a house and there is no danger even if you live on top of an active fault line.