6 ms·

Your statements in the first paragraph are contradictory. > Well firstly, the varna system doesn't change the Hindu perspective that one chooses one's birth.

Your statements in the first paragraph are contradictory. > Well firstly, the varna system doesn't change the Hindu perspective that one chooses one's birth. > That still lines up with the core tenets of Hinduism, that one chooses one's birth based on the ripe karmas. Vedas says one is born according to his past life karma. > The original caste system - the varna dharma - simply means that at different stages of life and different people more naturally express ways of serving society - some are workers, some are business people, some are warriors, some are priests. If people were allowed to change caste most people would have changed to priestly caste as it is the most easy life one can have. > A brahmin (priest caste) does not need to be born from brahmin parents No father would want his child to convert to lower caste. > The British further abused the caste system and perpetuated this false understanding of it for their own benefit. I am not saying Britishers came as saviors, but they are the ones who setup schools to everyone, obviously for their own profit ,but still mass education happened only after their conquest. > This is not the original way. The Vedas actually tell us that castes are fluid through one's life and not based on which family one was born into. Assuming this is true, who has the authority to decide who should belong to which caste. Obviously the people in the highest caste will decide and they will try to main the power. Its simple as that.

triyambakam 6y ago
> Your statements in the first paragraph are contradictory. > Vedas says one is born according to his past life karma. It seems like there are some gaps in your understanding of Hindu and Vedic thought. Yes, you are born according to your past life karma, but the soul (in a body or in the other loka) always have free will – so you chose your karma – you chose to do actions that created future karmas to be resolved. By extension, you chose your birth. This is the full understanding. > If people were allowed to change caste most people would have changed to priestly caste as it is the most easy life one can have. You are misconstruing the abuse, misapplication and misunderstanding of the varna dharma with how the Vedas define it. 1. In the original varna dharma, there isn’t an “easier life” for one caste or another. Everyone does there dharma and that takes work. According to the Vedas one caste is not superior to another, they are equal but different. 2. Your natural abilities are the way that you choose your caste. One person has no interest or ability for the spiritual life, but they are good at business. Your natural abilities are chosen based on past karma, which you also chose. > No father would want his child to convert to lower caste. Of course that is so when in the abused and misapplied varna dharma. This would not be a problem if the varna dharma were applied as it is in the Vedas. A person of the priest caste would offer equal respect to the worker caste, for example. > but still mass education happened only after their conquest. Which has been very problematic. Education for all is good, but they have enforced Christian education and many other negative things. I am not arguing that before the British things were perfect – the argument here is how the Vedas defined the varna dharma system vs how it has been misapplied, both before and after the British. Please understand this – you originally stated misinformation about what the Vedas say. > Assuming this is true, who has the authority to decide who should belong to which caste. Obviously the people in the highest caste will decide and they will try to main the power. Its simple as that. Continuation of the misapplication of the varna dharma, against the teachings of the Vedas. The authority should be by one’s own volition and the community. If the varna dharma is actually applied as it is outlined in the Vedas there is equality and justice for all. But it has been abused and used to keep certain people in power. That is not the way it is outlined in the Vedas. This inequality is wrong and against Vedic teachings.
- john4532452 6y ago
  I will address the most important point about education first. > Which has been very problematic. Education for all is good, but they have enforced Christian education and many other negative things. How is getting educated becomes problematic verses no education at all. I am taking about basic reading and writing ? Controlling the access to education and maintain the hierarchy of the society is the fundamental idea of the varna system. This is one of the important reason there were very few Nobel laureates and inventions have come from India in correlation with its population. By the way Britishers never had religion as part of education. > It seems like there are some gaps in your understanding of Hindu and Vedic thought. Yes, you are born according to your past life karma, but the soul (in a body or in the other loka) always have free will – so you chose your karma – you chose to do actions that created future karmas to be resolved. By extension, you chose your birth. This is the full understanding. This is same as saying you don't choose your varna/caste.This is just another way of saying you are born in to lower caste and have to do the back breaking job because for your sins in the previous birth. > In the original varna dharma, there isn’t an “easier life” for one caste or another. A priest life is much easier than a farmer or manual scavenger. > Your natural abilities are the way that you choose your caste. One person has no interest or ability for the spiritual life, but they are good at business. Your natural abilities are chosen based on past karma, which you also chose. Not true. Its very explicit. Even if it assumed true, once education is denied and fathers occupation is enforced on the children's for all the generation's how does one will have the time to find out and grow their natural abilities ? > A person of the priest caste would offer equal respect to the worker caste If education is not restricted based on religion, then one does not have to seek privilege or validity based on birth. > The authority should be by one’s own volition and the community. The enforcement is not by community its by the kings as preached by the vedas. The kings enforce varna system by denying education, owning property based on the caste or enforce fathers occupation over their childrens. Naturally kings have the incentive to avoid competition and hold on to their power.
  - triyambakam 6y ago
    This is tiring. Can you confirm that you understand or do not the difference between what the Vedas declare about varna dharma and how it has been abused? This core point you continue to either ignore or not comprehend. Your entire argument is useless because it continues to be based on the misapplication of varna dharma, which I agree, is not good. > By the way Britishers never had religion as part of education. That is utterly, laughably, ridiculously false. I can't believe someone with even a modicum of intelligence would say that. If you don't believe in karma that's fine, but whether you believe in it or not doesn't mean you continue to state false things about the Vedas. One can have a correct understanding of something without necessarily believing in it. But your understanding has been incorrect this entire thread, where I've each time pointed to the difference between what the Vedas declare in contrast to what people have done. This difference you can't seem to grasp.

triyambakam 6y ago

> Your statements in the first paragraph are contradictory. > Vedas says one is born according to his past life karma. It seems like there are some gaps in your understanding of Hindu and Vedic thought. Yes, you are born according to your past life karma, but the soul (in a body or in the other loka) always have free will – so you chose your karma – you chose to do actions that created future karmas to be resolved. By extension, you chose your birth. This is the full understanding. > If people were allowed to change caste most people would have changed to priestly caste as it is the most easy life one can have. You are misconstruing the abuse, misapplication and misunderstanding of the varna dharma with how the Vedas define it. 1. In the original varna dharma, there isn’t an “easier life” for one caste or another. Everyone does there dharma and that takes work. According to the Vedas one caste is not superior to another, they are equal but different. 2. Your natural abilities are the way that you choose your caste. One person has no interest or ability for the spiritual life, but they are good at business. Your natural abilities are chosen based on past karma, which you also chose. > No father would want his child to convert to lower caste. Of course that is so when in the abused and misapplied varna dharma. This would not be a problem if the varna dharma were applied as it is in the Vedas. A person of the priest caste would offer equal respect to the worker caste, for example. > but still mass education happened only after their conquest. Which has been very problematic. Education for all is good, but they have enforced Christian education and many other negative things. I am not arguing that before the British things were perfect – the argument here is how the Vedas defined the varna dharma system vs how it has been misapplied, both before and after the British. Please understand this – you originally stated misinformation about what the Vedas say. > Assuming this is true, who has the authority to decide who should belong to which caste. Obviously the people in the highest caste will decide and they will try to main the power. Its simple as that. Continuation of the misapplication of the varna dharma, against the teachings of the Vedas. The authority should be by one’s own volition and the community. If the varna dharma is actually applied as it is outlined in the Vedas there is equality and justice for all. But it has been abused and used to keep certain people in power. That is not the way it is outlined in the Vedas. This inequality is wrong and against Vedic teachings.

john4532452 6y ago
I will address the most important point about education first. > Which has been very problematic. Education for all is good, but they have enforced Christian education and many other negative things. How is getting educated becomes problematic verses no education at all. I am taking about basic reading and writing ? Controlling the access to education and maintain the hierarchy of the society is the fundamental idea of the varna system. This is one of the important reason there were very few Nobel laureates and inventions have come from India in correlation with its population. By the way Britishers never had religion as part of education. > It seems like there are some gaps in your understanding of Hindu and Vedic thought. Yes, you are born according to your past life karma, but the soul (in a body or in the other loka) always have free will – so you chose your karma – you chose to do actions that created future karmas to be resolved. By extension, you chose your birth. This is the full understanding. This is same as saying you don't choose your varna/caste.This is just another way of saying you are born in to lower caste and have to do the back breaking job because for your sins in the previous birth. > In the original varna dharma, there isn’t an “easier life” for one caste or another. A priest life is much easier than a farmer or manual scavenger. > Your natural abilities are the way that you choose your caste. One person has no interest or ability for the spiritual life, but they are good at business. Your natural abilities are chosen based on past karma, which you also chose. Not true. Its very explicit. Even if it assumed true, once education is denied and fathers occupation is enforced on the children's for all the generation's how does one will have the time to find out and grow their natural abilities ? > A person of the priest caste would offer equal respect to the worker caste If education is not restricted based on religion, then one does not have to seek privilege or validity based on birth. > The authority should be by one’s own volition and the community. The enforcement is not by community its by the kings as preached by the vedas. The kings enforce varna system by denying education, owning property based on the caste or enforce fathers occupation over their childrens. Naturally kings have the incentive to avoid competition and hold on to their power.
- triyambakam 6y ago
  This is tiring. Can you confirm that you understand or do not the difference between what the Vedas declare about varna dharma and how it has been abused? This core point you continue to either ignore or not comprehend. Your entire argument is useless because it continues to be based on the misapplication of varna dharma, which I agree, is not good. > By the way Britishers never had religion as part of education. That is utterly, laughably, ridiculously false. I can't believe someone with even a modicum of intelligence would say that. If you don't believe in karma that's fine, but whether you believe in it or not doesn't mean you continue to state false things about the Vedas. One can have a correct understanding of something without necessarily believing in it. But your understanding has been incorrect this entire thread, where I've each time pointed to the difference between what the Vedas declare in contrast to what people have done. This difference you can't seem to grasp.