5 ms·

Whole Foods is tracking and scoring stores it deems at risk of unionizing

32 points by notRobot 7y ago

listentojohan 7y ago
Broken link?
- notRobot 7y ago
  Link works for me, but apparently others are getting an error. You can try this: https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionization-risk-with-heat-map-2020-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionizat...
  - listentojohan 7y ago
    Thanks. That worked. :)
behindsight 7y ago
Fixed link: https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionization-risk-with-heat-map-2020-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionizat...
- notRobot 7y ago
  Huh, the link I posted is working for me but apparently not for others. Thanks for this.
dwighttk 7y ago
Heh, I initially conflated this with the Amazon warehouse drone heat sensor story from a few days ago and was wondering why union organizers had a different temperature than non-union folk.
Poems 7y ago
Pretty sure this was lifted from an episode of “Superstore”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstore_(TV_series) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstore_(TV_series)
adrianN 7y ago
You know what would help against such tactics? A union!
- samdamsam 7y ago
  Ironically, the mid-century war on unions began with the state and the company owners acknowledging this very thing and proceeding to implement friendly unions. The result was working people gradually began distrusting their unions more and more, which brought us back to the drawing board.
- dimitar 7y ago
  Imagine union organizers having an app where workers can register anonymously (just wage and location) and help build heat-maps of places where workers are interested in unionizing. This can have increasing returns - see some plant having some interested workers? Send some picketers with download instructions to find the rest. The app can also provide useful services like to reporting wage theft or other rights violations. BTW, I'm not even sure trade unions are the right way to solve labor issues, but it is fun to ponder union organizing in the 21st century.
  - dariusj18 7y ago
    Just don't host it on AWS. Or any other cloud platform for that matter.
mothsonasloth 7y ago
When will people realise that "progressive" companies like Whole Foods aren't really progressive? They're just good at exploiting whilst distracting customers with flashy themes like organic, sustainable, environmental, community-minded. In any business, there is someone or something that is getting squeezed; whether its the environment, producers, manufacturers, suppliers, distributors workers or the customers. This isn't an argument against capitalism, it's just the reality.
- forgingahead 7y ago
  In any business, there is someone or something that is getting squeezed; whether its the environment, producers, manufacturers, suppliers, distributors workers or the customers. This is not a serious claim with strong evidence -- "someone must get shafted" ('squeezed' as you put it) sounds more like an ideological statement than a factual one. I'm the first to agree with you that there can be big problems with how certain companies are run. But you can make the same claim about any organisation of people, whether it is governmental, for-profit, non-profit, or even your weekly men's drinking group.
  - javajosh 7y ago
    "Squeeze" is too vague a word to criticize so carefully. If squeeze just implies "businesses act to reduce cost," then it is trivially true for all business. However the GP might mean "squeeze" to be limited to a coercive act to reduce cost. Which is illegal in theory, but probably happens quite often in practice.
- duud 7y ago
  Especially when said progressive company is owned by relentless.com
paulus_magnus2 7y ago
Is there a good reason why we allow capital to organise itself and not labour? Adam smith was already commenting on this asymmetry [can't find the quote]. In the end, labour can "capitalise itself" by having all employees resign, form a body-shop company and apply to service the original employer. In an efficient market these two arrangements should produce the same outcome.
- alexpetralia 7y ago
  I'd love to read further analysis on this (by Smith himself perhaps) if you can find it!
- Hokusai 7y ago
  > Is there a good reason why we allow capital to organise itself and not labour? It is a matter of for whom is easier to organize. Capital can organize pretty easily, you may need only half a dozen companies to change a full labor market. But, you will need thousands or tens of thousands of individuals to achieve the same on the labor side. So, you need laws to protect labor if they have to have any chance to organize themselves, or even to promote and finance such activities. Weak or non-existent labor laws creates a power imbalance in favor of capital. So, you only hear their side of the discussion. e.g.: https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tech-jobs-settlement-20150903-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tech-jo...
- dariusj18 7y ago
  Because there's always scabs willing to sell out our fellows to earn a buck when they deserve two.
- revicon 7y ago
  > Is there a good reason why we allow capital to organise itself and not labour Capital is liquid, labor is not. Labor is emotional, gets sick, wants days off, doesn't want to work under undesirable conditions, etc. Capital doesn't have opinions, doesn't need to have elections and votes.
merricksb 7y ago
Large discussion earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925359 (210 points/129 comments)
Hitton 7y ago
Store-risk metrics include average store compensation, average total store sales, and a "diversity index" that represents the racial and ethnic diversity of every store. Stores at higher risk of unionizing have lower diversity and lower employee compensation, as well as higher total store sales and higher rates of workers' compensation claims, according to the documents. Interesting. I would like to know what factors are behind this. This would be probably good area to do sociological research in.
- sjwright 7y ago
  So if you want to unionise Whole Foods, start in the areas of highest diversity and compensation.
hckr_news 7y ago
“Dupe” flag makes me think of the article being a dupe or falsified rather than a duplicate. Maybe the moderators here should use a different word.

32 points by notRobot 7y ago

listentojohan 7y ago

Broken link?

notRobot 7y ago
Link works for me, but apparently others are getting an error. You can try this: https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionization-risk-with-heat-map-2020-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionizat...
- listentojohan 7y ago
  Thanks. That worked. :)

behindsight 7y ago

Fixed link: https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionization-risk-with-heat-map-2020-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionizat...

notRobot 7y ago
Huh, the link I posted is working for me but apparently not for others. Thanks for this.

dwighttk 7y ago

Heh, I initially conflated this with the Amazon warehouse drone heat sensor story from a few days ago and was wondering why union organizers had a different temperature than non-union folk.

Poems 7y ago

Pretty sure this was lifted from an episode of “Superstore”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstore_(TV_series) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstore_(TV_series)

adrianN 7y ago

You know what would help against such tactics? A union!

samdamsam 7y ago
Ironically, the mid-century war on unions began with the state and the company owners acknowledging this very thing and proceeding to implement friendly unions. The result was working people gradually began distrusting their unions more and more, which brought us back to the drawing board.
dimitar 7y ago
Imagine union organizers having an app where workers can register anonymously (just wage and location) and help build heat-maps of places where workers are interested in unionizing. This can have increasing returns - see some plant having some interested workers? Send some picketers with download instructions to find the rest. The app can also provide useful services like to reporting wage theft or other rights violations. BTW, I'm not even sure trade unions are the right way to solve labor issues, but it is fun to ponder union organizing in the 21st century.
- dariusj18 7y ago
  Just don't host it on AWS. Or any other cloud platform for that matter.

mothsonasloth 7y ago

When will people realise that "progressive" companies like Whole Foods aren't really progressive? They're just good at exploiting whilst distracting customers with flashy themes like organic, sustainable, environmental, community-minded. In any business, there is someone or something that is getting squeezed; whether its the environment, producers, manufacturers, suppliers, distributors workers or the customers. This isn't an argument against capitalism, it's just the reality.

forgingahead 7y ago
In any business, there is someone or something that is getting squeezed; whether its the environment, producers, manufacturers, suppliers, distributors workers or the customers. This is not a serious claim with strong evidence -- "someone must get shafted" ('squeezed' as you put it) sounds more like an ideological statement than a factual one. I'm the first to agree with you that there can be big problems with how certain companies are run. But you can make the same claim about any organisation of people, whether it is governmental, for-profit, non-profit, or even your weekly men's drinking group.
- javajosh 7y ago
  "Squeeze" is too vague a word to criticize so carefully. If squeeze just implies "businesses act to reduce cost," then it is trivially true for all business. However the GP might mean "squeeze" to be limited to a coercive act to reduce cost. Which is illegal in theory, but probably happens quite often in practice.
duud 7y ago
Especially when said progressive company is owned by relentless.com

paulus_magnus2 7y ago

Is there a good reason why we allow capital to organise itself and not labour? Adam smith was already commenting on this asymmetry [can't find the quote]. In the end, labour can "capitalise itself" by having all employees resign, form a body-shop company and apply to service the original employer. In an efficient market these two arrangements should produce the same outcome.

alexpetralia 7y ago
I'd love to read further analysis on this (by Smith himself perhaps) if you can find it!
Hokusai 7y ago
> Is there a good reason why we allow capital to organise itself and not labour? It is a matter of for whom is easier to organize. Capital can organize pretty easily, you may need only half a dozen companies to change a full labor market. But, you will need thousands or tens of thousands of individuals to achieve the same on the labor side. So, you need laws to protect labor if they have to have any chance to organize themselves, or even to promote and finance such activities. Weak or non-existent labor laws creates a power imbalance in favor of capital. So, you only hear their side of the discussion. e.g.: https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tech-jobs-settlement-20150903-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tech-jo...
dariusj18 7y ago
Because there's always scabs willing to sell out our fellows to earn a buck when they deserve two.
revicon 7y ago
> Is there a good reason why we allow capital to organise itself and not labour Capital is liquid, labor is not. Labor is emotional, gets sick, wants days off, doesn't want to work under undesirable conditions, etc. Capital doesn't have opinions, doesn't need to have elections and votes.

merricksb 7y ago

Large discussion earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925359 (210 points/129 comments)

Hitton 7y ago

Store-risk metrics include average store compensation, average total store sales, and a "diversity index" that represents the racial and ethnic diversity of every store. Stores at higher risk of unionizing have lower diversity and lower employee compensation, as well as higher total store sales and higher rates of workers' compensation claims, according to the documents. Interesting. I would like to know what factors are behind this. This would be probably good area to do sociological research in.

sjwright 7y ago
So if you want to unionise Whole Foods, start in the areas of highest diversity and compensation.

hckr_news 7y ago

“Dupe” flag makes me think of the article being a dupe or falsified rather than a duplicate. Maybe the moderators here should use a different word.