6 ms·

This game made me empathize less and less with environmentalists. Forests are an impediment to a transport network. Wildlife are pests. Renewable energy has ext

This game made me empathize less and less with environmentalists. Forests are an impediment to a transport network. Wildlife are pests. Renewable energy has extremely low ROI.

suyjuris 6y ago
Solar is less CPU intensive than other types of energy (thus saving the actual environment, interestingly). Factorio is incredibly well-optimised, but at some point this starts to matter.
ivankirigin 6y ago
Solar + storage lowers your pollution and the pests. I wish there were a way to restore the environment like planting trees in order to also remove the pests.
- abtinf 6y ago
  For a sizable factory, massive spaces must be dedicated to renewable energy, which means obliterating lots of pests. And building the renewable infrastructure--mines, crude pumping, transit, smelting, refining, manufacturing, landfilling lakes, bot deployments, defense--are massively expensive and polluting. By comparison, nuclear (or even coal!) is much easier on the wildlife.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  If the trees didn't look so depressing in this game, there would be motivation for reforesting (beyond reducing pest problems) - making your factory look nice, with an ordered mix of nature and high-tech industry.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  "I wish there were a way to restore the environment like planting trees in order to also remove the pests." There are mods that will let you plant trees. Planting trees will reduce pollution, and that in turn will lead to you getting bothered less by biters, the native life forms of the planet.
anentropic 6y ago
sounds like a bad case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_rhetoric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_rhetoric
- mettamage 6y ago
  Ha! I'm not the only one that knows about it! Yay! Procedural rhetoric is an awesome concept and one that I'd wish to be seen discussed more often. And I second your statement.
notthemessiah 6y ago
In the same sense, Paradox games make you less sympathetic to the classes you're not a part of. Governments and rulers operate under a different set of rules than those of individual rights (except those of a sovereign), civil liberties, and labor conditions. War crimes just become a means to an end. In Factorio, you play the role of invader/exploiter/colonist, even if the role was thrust upon you. In one of the Factorio blog posts, a developer writes: > Imagine yourself living in a perfectly balanced natural environment. With total freedom. A place where your ancestors have been the inhabitants for centuries. Evolving, understanding, and being part of this peaceful world and rich ecosystem. Totally integrated. On this land you can get aliment easily, due the lack of serious predators and pollution, and with the friendly company of your fellows, the only thing you have to take care is food, relax, and reproduction. > Imagine that suddenly, something falls down from the sky. Something that starts the extraction of the minerals, and the eradication of your forests. Even further. Imagine that this newcomer, making use of the stolen resources, starts the production of massive machines aimed to automate the robbery and the production of a never ending factory which creates not only pollution in the air and water, desertification on the land, and starvation for your people, but also, creates heavy weapons in order to exterminate you and your entire species. > Wouldn't you be angry? Isn't that newcomer a sick bastard? https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-69 https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-69 Games are abstractions, and in abstractions, all of the complications are stripped away to focus on a specific mechanic. Abstractions in real world reach breaking points: at a certain boundaries, water operates as a different state of matter, in which a "liquid" abstraction/conception no longer applies.
pmoriarty 6y ago
" This game made me empathize less and less with environmentalists. Forests are an impediment to a transport network. Wildlife are pests. Renewable energy has extremely low ROI." It's funny you should say that. I noticed that nuclear energy in Factorio is waste-free, and (at least without mods) there's no risk of a nuclear reactor suffering a meltdown and massively damaging large areas of your base. Also, it was interesting to see just how massive a solar panel array you'd have to have in order to match even a coal power plant, never mind a small nuclear power plant. On the other hand, Factorio's factories pollute, and fighting hard to reduce pollution is a major part of the game.
- Tyr42 6y ago
  >"No risk" Well if a biter manages to kill the reactor while it's hot I think it explodes. But that's unlikely to happen unless lots of things go wrong.

This game made me empathize less and less with environmentalists. Forests are an impediment to a transport network. Wildlife are pests. Renewable energy has extremely low ROI.

suyjuris 6y ago

Solar is less CPU intensive than other types of energy (thus saving the actual environment, interestingly). Factorio is incredibly well-optimised, but at some point this starts to matter.

ivankirigin 6y ago

Solar + storage lowers your pollution and the pests. I wish there were a way to restore the environment like planting trees in order to also remove the pests.

abtinf 6y ago
For a sizable factory, massive spaces must be dedicated to renewable energy, which means obliterating lots of pests. And building the renewable infrastructure--mines, crude pumping, transit, smelting, refining, manufacturing, landfilling lakes, bot deployments, defense--are massively expensive and polluting. By comparison, nuclear (or even coal!) is much easier on the wildlife.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
If the trees didn't look so depressing in this game, there would be motivation for reforesting (beyond reducing pest problems) - making your factory look nice, with an ordered mix of nature and high-tech industry.
pmoriarty 6y ago
"I wish there were a way to restore the environment like planting trees in order to also remove the pests." There are mods that will let you plant trees. Planting trees will reduce pollution, and that in turn will lead to you getting bothered less by biters, the native life forms of the planet.

anentropic 6y ago

sounds like a bad case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_rhetoric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_rhetoric

mettamage 6y ago
Ha! I'm not the only one that knows about it! Yay! Procedural rhetoric is an awesome concept and one that I'd wish to be seen discussed more often. And I second your statement.

notthemessiah 6y ago

In the same sense, Paradox games make you less sympathetic to the classes you're not a part of. Governments and rulers operate under a different set of rules than those of individual rights (except those of a sovereign), civil liberties, and labor conditions. War crimes just become a means to an end. In Factorio, you play the role of invader/exploiter/colonist, even if the role was thrust upon you. In one of the Factorio blog posts, a developer writes: > Imagine yourself living in a perfectly balanced natural environment. With total freedom. A place where your ancestors have been the inhabitants for centuries. Evolving, understanding, and being part of this peaceful world and rich ecosystem. Totally integrated. On this land you can get aliment easily, due the lack of serious predators and pollution, and with the friendly company of your fellows, the only thing you have to take care is food, relax, and reproduction. > Imagine that suddenly, something falls down from the sky. Something that starts the extraction of the minerals, and the eradication of your forests. Even further. Imagine that this newcomer, making use of the stolen resources, starts the production of massive machines aimed to automate the robbery and the production of a never ending factory which creates not only pollution in the air and water, desertification on the land, and starvation for your people, but also, creates heavy weapons in order to exterminate you and your entire species. > Wouldn't you be angry? Isn't that newcomer a sick bastard? https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-69 https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-69 Games are abstractions, and in abstractions, all of the complications are stripped away to focus on a specific mechanic. Abstractions in real world reach breaking points: at a certain boundaries, water operates as a different state of matter, in which a "liquid" abstraction/conception no longer applies.

pmoriarty 6y ago

" This game made me empathize less and less with environmentalists. Forests are an impediment to a transport network. Wildlife are pests. Renewable energy has extremely low ROI." It's funny you should say that. I noticed that nuclear energy in Factorio is waste-free, and (at least without mods) there's no risk of a nuclear reactor suffering a meltdown and massively damaging large areas of your base. Also, it was interesting to see just how massive a solar panel array you'd have to have in order to match even a coal power plant, never mind a small nuclear power plant. On the other hand, Factorio's factories pollute, and fighting hard to reduce pollution is a major part of the game.

Tyr42 6y ago
>"No risk" Well if a biter manages to kill the reactor while it's hot I think it explodes. But that's unlikely to happen unless lots of things go wrong.