5 ms·

Lots of normal things about human interaction are broken in Zoom meetings. * You can't have a normal conversation with that much delay. Every time you talk yo

Lots of normal things about human interaction are broken in Zoom meetings. * You can't have a normal conversation with that much delay. Every time you talk you're probably interrupting someone, and that starts to wear on you. * You can't have any side chats with your neighbors before and after the meeting, making everyone seem less like a person. * You can't tell who's looking at you, so you always feel like you have to remain presentable and vigilant. * There's no sense of space. You can't look over at person if whomever is talking just teleports to the center of the screen. Or if the layout is fixed, sound isn't coming from anywhere in particular, so you need to search around for who's talking. And everyone on screen is looking a random direction.

joegahona 7y ago
Also inevitably the same 3 or 4 people join all the Zooms with their camera off, and mic off, which creates a disconnect. This is akin to showing up to an in-person meeting under a giant blanket, only the sound quality of someone talking from underneath a blanket is significantly better than Zoom.
xioxox 7y ago
In our (academic) meetings, people generally default to switching off their camera when there's more than a handful of participants. I find this much less stressful. I can also do some physical activity which helps concentration if I'm just listening.
- kqr 7y ago
  It also puts a lot less pressure on the network connections involved when they aren't also loaded with 8 real-time video streams.
dylan604 7y ago
So why the fixation on a video call? I'm probably just an old curmudgeon, but to me the benefits do not out weigh the oddities being discussed. Everyone wearing their pieces of flair with their "personalized" backgrounds are tiresome. I can see the benefits of a screen share/presentation, but I really don't need to see the other people involved. I don't care about tone of voice. I get sarcasm. For the people that don't, then even if they can see them, the sarcasm isn't more/less because it's a video call. Video calls to me are just another version of "Hey look at me!!!! I'm special"
- zjs 7y ago
  In part due to the latency noted elsewhere in the comments, I find myself interrupting people more when I'm remote. With video on, the visual cue of someone getting ready to start talking makes that easier to avoid. Secondarily, I have a much better time assessing whether other attendees are following a conversation. If I'm feeling lost, but everyone else looks like they're following along, maybe it's just me — and I'll sit tight and try to catch up. If others look bewildered, I'll start asking questions.
  - mnsc 7y ago
    > With video on, the visual cue of someone getting ready to start talking makes that easier to avoid. You have the possibility of using an actual raised hand to signal that you want to interrupt a discussion that has gone astray. But that only works in settings where all participants are visible even when silent.
  - fastball 7y ago
    Maybe someone needs to add a feature to their video calling solution where you can press a button to "raise your hand".
    - papeda 7y ago
      Maybe this is sarcasm, buy Zoom has that exact feature.
      - RandomBacon 7y ago
        I used that feature to "raise my hand" in my first ever Zoom meeting. The host didn't realize it until I raised my actual hand on video.
    - valesco 7y ago
      meet.jit.si has that feature. It seems really superior to Zoom (no account needed, links in natural language, great UI, good sound/video quality), I don't know why more people don't use it.
vosper 7y ago
> if the layout is fixed, sound isn't coming from anywhere in particular, so you need to search around for who's talking. I’ve wondered about this - why aren’t individual speakers (people) each placed somewhere different on the stereo plane? Is it because the video is in front of us and having people sound like there coming from the sides could be distracting, by drawing our attention away from the screen? It must have been tried - why doesn’t it work?
- mh- 7y ago
  Dolby Voice [1] provides this, and BlueJeans has support [2] for it. I've only been on one call with it, but as someone who (even before current circumstances) spends 4-6 hours/day on video calls.. I'm very intrigued by the idea. If you want to google more, the term generically is 'positional audio'. Dolby calls theirs 'Voice Placement'. 1: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/products/dolby-voice-room-demo.html#audio https://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/products/dolby-voic... (ctrl-f for 'voice placement') 2: https://www.bluejeans.com/products/rooms/dolby-voice-conference-room https://www.bluejeans.com/products/rooms/dolby-voice-confere...
- DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
  Teamspeak (although that's audio only) allows you to place other speakers around you in 3D; I haven't tried it much, but I imagine it could be quite useful on certain situations.
alharith 7y ago
> * You can't tell who's looking at you, so you always feel like you have to remain presentable and vigilant. Feel free to hit that "Turn off Video" button from time to time. I make liberal use of it.
imiric 7y ago
I wonder if VR meetings will take off because of this crisis. Most of the issues you mention would be solved by VR, except the audio latency, which is the biggest hurdle. For mass adoption the headsets would have to become even more comfortable and lightweight, the displays faster and higher resolution, with lower price and easier setup. I haven't followed the latest developments, so we might be a couple of generations away from this, assuming the industry can keep progressing during downtime.
- martinpw 7y ago
  We did some meetings in VR. It definitely has some upsides, eg you can stand in a virtual circle and you get to see who people are looking at which makes at least that aspect of meetings better than video. The big downside is the friction of getting it set up. Inevitably someone has a dead battery or their VR setup decides it absolutely needs to update drivers for the Nth time this week, and then everyone is waiting or unsure what is going on.

joegahona 7y ago

Also inevitably the same 3 or 4 people join all the Zooms with their camera off, and mic off, which creates a disconnect. This is akin to showing up to an in-person meeting under a giant blanket, only the sound quality of someone talking from underneath a blanket is significantly better than Zoom.

xioxox 7y ago

In our (academic) meetings, people generally default to switching off their camera when there's more than a handful of participants. I find this much less stressful. I can also do some physical activity which helps concentration if I'm just listening.

kqr 7y ago
It also puts a lot less pressure on the network connections involved when they aren't also loaded with 8 real-time video streams.

dylan604 7y ago

So why the fixation on a video call? I'm probably just an old curmudgeon, but to me the benefits do not out weigh the oddities being discussed. Everyone wearing their pieces of flair with their "personalized" backgrounds are tiresome. I can see the benefits of a screen share/presentation, but I really don't need to see the other people involved. I don't care about tone of voice. I get sarcasm. For the people that don't, then even if they can see them, the sarcasm isn't more/less because it's a video call. Video calls to me are just another version of "Hey look at me!!!! I'm special"

zjs 7y ago
In part due to the latency noted elsewhere in the comments, I find myself interrupting people more when I'm remote. With video on, the visual cue of someone getting ready to start talking makes that easier to avoid. Secondarily, I have a much better time assessing whether other attendees are following a conversation. If I'm feeling lost, but everyone else looks like they're following along, maybe it's just me — and I'll sit tight and try to catch up. If others look bewildered, I'll start asking questions.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > With video on, the visual cue of someone getting ready to start talking makes that easier to avoid. You have the possibility of using an actual raised hand to signal that you want to interrupt a discussion that has gone astray. But that only works in settings where all participants are visible even when silent.
- fastball 7y ago
  Maybe someone needs to add a feature to their video calling solution where you can press a button to "raise your hand".
  - papeda 7y ago
    Maybe this is sarcasm, buy Zoom has that exact feature.
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      I used that feature to "raise my hand" in my first ever Zoom meeting. The host didn't realize it until I raised my actual hand on video.
  - valesco 7y ago
    meet.jit.si has that feature. It seems really superior to Zoom (no account needed, links in natural language, great UI, good sound/video quality), I don't know why more people don't use it.

vosper 7y ago

> if the layout is fixed, sound isn't coming from anywhere in particular, so you need to search around for who's talking. I’ve wondered about this - why aren’t individual speakers (people) each placed somewhere different on the stereo plane? Is it because the video is in front of us and having people sound like there coming from the sides could be distracting, by drawing our attention away from the screen? It must have been tried - why doesn’t it work?

mh- 7y ago
Dolby Voice [1] provides this, and BlueJeans has support [2] for it. I've only been on one call with it, but as someone who (even before current circumstances) spends 4-6 hours/day on video calls.. I'm very intrigued by the idea. If you want to google more, the term generically is 'positional audio'. Dolby calls theirs 'Voice Placement'. 1: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/products/dolby-voice-room-demo.html#audio https://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/products/dolby-voic... (ctrl-f for 'voice placement') 2: https://www.bluejeans.com/products/rooms/dolby-voice-conference-room https://www.bluejeans.com/products/rooms/dolby-voice-confere...
DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
Teamspeak (although that's audio only) allows you to place other speakers around you in 3D; I haven't tried it much, but I imagine it could be quite useful on certain situations.

alharith 7y ago

> * You can't tell who's looking at you, so you always feel like you have to remain presentable and vigilant. Feel free to hit that "Turn off Video" button from time to time. I make liberal use of it.

imiric 7y ago

I wonder if VR meetings will take off because of this crisis. Most of the issues you mention would be solved by VR, except the audio latency, which is the biggest hurdle. For mass adoption the headsets would have to become even more comfortable and lightweight, the displays faster and higher resolution, with lower price and easier setup. I haven't followed the latest developments, so we might be a couple of generations away from this, assuming the industry can keep progressing during downtime.

martinpw 7y ago
We did some meetings in VR. It definitely has some upsides, eg you can stand in a virtual circle and you get to see who people are looking at which makes at least that aspect of meetings better than video. The big downside is the friction of getting it set up. Inevitably someone has a dead battery or their VR setup decides it absolutely needs to update drivers for the Nth time this week, and then everyone is waiting or unsure what is going on.