5 ms·

Gnome removes maximize and minimize buttons from program windows.

11 points by recoiledsnake 16y ago

personalcompute 16y ago
This is a huge change and whether it is better or not, it won't overcome the aversion to such a dramatic change in something most people find so fundamental. Regardless, I'm glad to see innovation in linux gui and expect it will be disableable through some hack or another.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > I'm glad to see innovation in linux gui I am glad we are seeing some change. We have been stuck with the same windows on a desktop metaphor since the Lisa. I understand this, at least, means someone is trying something new.
simonhamp 16y ago
Thieving garden midgets...
acabal 16y ago
I was on the fence as to whether Gnome 3 looked good or not, and this change drops me in to the "don't want to try it" camp. I don't like Unity either (and I have tried that one)... so now will I have a choice when running Ubuntu? I really hope someone maintains the old Gnome-panel system so that I can somehow graft it into future distro releases. I use Ubuntu on my work laptop. I need to be productive on my work computer, and I just don't have the time or inclination to futz around with drastically changed desktops and unlearn 15 years of muscle memory and comfort level. My computer needs to be familiar and simple to me so that I can spend time building and deploying apps, not trying to remember how to minimize a window or what hotkey is the 'switch workspace' key (since I don't use even them right now).
- nickbp 16y ago
  You might want to try out one of the other WMs, whether thats KDE or something less well known like xfce or openbox. I've myself been using gnome just about continuously since early 2.x and I may end up switching to something else as well. A nice thing with Linux is there's always a million alternatives, giving you a good chance of finding a close approximation to what you're looking for. Also, something I've found extremely useful at both work and home is the compiz "Grid" plugin, which allows you to set up easy keyboard shortcuts for window placement. I think it can be found in "compiz-fusion-plugins-extra" on bunters. A video of it in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMKhiZmlV0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMKhiZmlV0
  - trotsky 16y ago
    KDE 4.5+ has really come into its own, I highly suggest trying it out - I've been using it as my desktop for over a year now, and I've never looked back. One not very strong point is the KDE 4 application launcher, I'd suggest using a dock like cairo or you can configure the old gnome like launcher behavior to be default. I'm not sure how kubuntu looks, but fedora 14 and opensuse 11.4 both provide great kde experiences.
    - mickt 16y ago
      Old KDE fan where, moved from KDE to Gnome, then back and using Gnome for about 4 or 5 years now. Last week I tried KDE 4.5.1 that comes with Ubuntu (I do so every now and then to see if I'll move back). After 30 minutes of trying to get Network Manager to start a VPN connection, and Googling for answers and reading the docs, I gave up and started the VPN connection from the command-line. Now, I'm confused, how hard can it be to start a VPN connection? I clicked, I right-clicked, I reapplied the settings. Or it so simple that this long-time user can't figure it out?
      - trotsky 16y ago
        knetworkmanager having a bug doesn't shock me, though my VPN seems fine in fedora 14 / kde 4.5.5. I did once have to start a wireless network from the command line after knm just refused. While not ideal, I'm sure you could run gnome's nm-applet instead - I don't think your vpn issue is indicative of a general kde quality issue, though everyone has their own standards. openSUSE 11.4 will be out on the 10th - it might be worth trying their livecd for a polished kde-centric view. I feel like Canonical commits most of their resources to their gnome build.
- Kev 16y ago
  I'd suggest having a look at XFCE. It's similar enough to Gnome that you probably won't struggle to get used to it. It's also been more stable for me than recent versions of Gnome and as a bonus it's much lighter on system resources.
X-Istence 16y ago
I really don't use the maximise button ever, then again it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway. Now, a minimise button I do use, and my windows neatly get hidden away behind the icon they belong to (it's an option in OS X and I love it). Now, when I move my mouse to a corner of my desktop and activate exposé I get to see all of these windows as thumbnails. Removing minimise is in my opinion definitely disruptive, sometimes it is nice to clear all the windows off the screen, using different workspaces is not always the right answer. I assume that the overview they are talking about (and having read the linked email) looks and acts like Exposé does on the Mac, while nice, a lot of full screen applications and it becomes difficult to select the right window because the thumbnails get too small. The suggestion offered in the email looks a lot like what Mac OS X does. I do hope that when Gnome 3.x is available in your standard Linux distributions that turning the minimise button back on is available.
- tzs 16y ago
  > I really don't use the maximise button ever, then again it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway. OS X doesn't have a maximize button. The purpose of the green button on OS X is to size the window based on the content, not on the screen size. For example, for a browser window it generally maximizes height and sets width to the minimum size that does not require a horizontal scroll bar.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway. It was broken since... System 6, at least > Now, a minimise button I do use It's useful if you have stuff on the desktop (like I do). If the desktop is nothing but wallpaper space, then minimizing windows make little sense - just get your windows on the front (which is hard to do without a dock) I like the drag to snap option. I only hope Gnome folks don't accidentally step on a patent land mine laid by those free-software lovers at Microsoft.
  - X-Istence 16y ago
    > It's useful if you have stuff on the desktop (like I do). If the desktop is nothing but wallpaper space, then minimizing windows make little sense - just get your windows on the front (which is hard to do without a dock) At times (especially at work) I will have many different windows open at the same time. Exposé at that time will become very cluttered and it will be very hard to find the window I want, minimising removes that because now the windows I do want are bigger than the small minimised ones. From looking at more screenshots from Gnome 3 it looks like their "activities" overview is a lot like Exposé.
mmastrac 16y ago
I thought this was silly until I read the article - as pointed out, the maximize function isn't being removed at all. Only the maximize button, which is an arguably terrible UI for the action, is being dropped in favor of dragging windows to the top of the screen. Minimize, however, is being dropped because there's just nowhere to minimize too. I rarely use minimize and this wouldn't be a big deal for me.
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  Minimize is also not being removed,you can do it via short cuts or right click menu.
  - mmastrac 16y ago
    Good to know, thanks. It appears that all they've done here is change the surface UI to make it lighter-weight by not doing things just because they've always been done. Makes sense to me.
naner 16y ago
This is hard to make sense of without knowing how the redesigned Gnome 3 desktop looks and works. You can get an idea on their website: http://www.gnome3.org/ http://www.gnome3.org/ http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/ http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/
bryanlarsen 16y ago
This will probably be much like the Ubuntu "buttons on the left" event. Lots of whining before the change, and not a peep afterwards.
junklight 16y ago
new devices are going to change the way we use our windowing managers. For example on my air things close and open so fast I try to close most things (especially those that remember their state) when I'm not looking at them - I don't minimise I close. Looking at the gnome 3 design can't help wondering if someone shouldn't be thinking of putting it on a tablet eventually (or rather working on a tablet directed branch) - might meet the "open" needs of hackers more than android.

11 points by recoiledsnake 16y ago

This is a huge change and whether it is better or not, it won't overcome the aversion to such a dramatic change in something most people find so fundamental. Regardless, I'm glad to see innovation in linux gui and expect it will be disableable through some hack or another.

rbanffy 16y ago
> I'm glad to see innovation in linux gui I am glad we are seeing some change. We have been stuck with the same windows on a desktop metaphor since the Lisa. I understand this, at least, means someone is trying something new.

simonhamp 16y ago

Thieving garden midgets...

acabal 16y ago

I was on the fence as to whether Gnome 3 looked good or not, and this change drops me in to the "don't want to try it" camp. I don't like Unity either (and I have tried that one)... so now will I have a choice when running Ubuntu? I really hope someone maintains the old Gnome-panel system so that I can somehow graft it into future distro releases. I use Ubuntu on my work laptop. I need to be productive on my work computer, and I just don't have the time or inclination to futz around with drastically changed desktops and unlearn 15 years of muscle memory and comfort level. My computer needs to be familiar and simple to me so that I can spend time building and deploying apps, not trying to remember how to minimize a window or what hotkey is the 'switch workspace' key (since I don't use even them right now).

nickbp 16y ago
You might want to try out one of the other WMs, whether thats KDE or something less well known like xfce or openbox. I've myself been using gnome just about continuously since early 2.x and I may end up switching to something else as well. A nice thing with Linux is there's always a million alternatives, giving you a good chance of finding a close approximation to what you're looking for. Also, something I've found extremely useful at both work and home is the compiz "Grid" plugin, which allows you to set up easy keyboard shortcuts for window placement. I think it can be found in "compiz-fusion-plugins-extra" on bunters. A video of it in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMKhiZmlV0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMKhiZmlV0
- trotsky 16y ago
  KDE 4.5+ has really come into its own, I highly suggest trying it out - I've been using it as my desktop for over a year now, and I've never looked back. One not very strong point is the KDE 4 application launcher, I'd suggest using a dock like cairo or you can configure the old gnome like launcher behavior to be default. I'm not sure how kubuntu looks, but fedora 14 and opensuse 11.4 both provide great kde experiences.
  - mickt 16y ago
    Old KDE fan where, moved from KDE to Gnome, then back and using Gnome for about 4 or 5 years now. Last week I tried KDE 4.5.1 that comes with Ubuntu (I do so every now and then to see if I'll move back). After 30 minutes of trying to get Network Manager to start a VPN connection, and Googling for answers and reading the docs, I gave up and started the VPN connection from the command-line. Now, I'm confused, how hard can it be to start a VPN connection? I clicked, I right-clicked, I reapplied the settings. Or it so simple that this long-time user can't figure it out?
    - trotsky 16y ago
      knetworkmanager having a bug doesn't shock me, though my VPN seems fine in fedora 14 / kde 4.5.5. I did once have to start a wireless network from the command line after knm just refused. While not ideal, I'm sure you could run gnome's nm-applet instead - I don't think your vpn issue is indicative of a general kde quality issue, though everyone has their own standards. openSUSE 11.4 will be out on the 10th - it might be worth trying their livecd for a polished kde-centric view. I feel like Canonical commits most of their resources to their gnome build.
Kev 16y ago
I'd suggest having a look at XFCE. It's similar enough to Gnome that you probably won't struggle to get used to it. It's also been more stable for me than recent versions of Gnome and as a bonus it's much lighter on system resources.

X-Istence 16y ago

I really don't use the maximise button ever, then again it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway. Now, a minimise button I do use, and my windows neatly get hidden away behind the icon they belong to (it's an option in OS X and I love it). Now, when I move my mouse to a corner of my desktop and activate exposé I get to see all of these windows as thumbnails. Removing minimise is in my opinion definitely disruptive, sometimes it is nice to clear all the windows off the screen, using different workspaces is not always the right answer. I assume that the overview they are talking about (and having read the linked email) looks and acts like Exposé does on the Mac, while nice, a lot of full screen applications and it becomes difficult to select the right window because the thumbnails get too small. The suggestion offered in the email looks a lot like what Mac OS X does. I do hope that when Gnome 3.x is available in your standard Linux distributions that turning the minimise button back on is available.

tzs 16y ago
> I really don't use the maximise button ever, then again it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway. OS X doesn't have a maximize button. The purpose of the green button on OS X is to size the window based on the content, not on the screen size. For example, for a browser window it generally maximizes height and sets width to the minimum size that does not require a horizontal scroll bar.
rbanffy 16y ago
> it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway. It was broken since... System 6, at least > Now, a minimise button I do use It's useful if you have stuff on the desktop (like I do). If the desktop is nothing but wallpaper space, then minimizing windows make little sense - just get your windows on the front (which is hard to do without a dock) I like the drag to snap option. I only hope Gnome folks don't accidentally step on a patent land mine laid by those free-software lovers at Microsoft.
- X-Istence 16y ago
  > It's useful if you have stuff on the desktop (like I do). If the desktop is nothing but wallpaper space, then minimizing windows make little sense - just get your windows on the front (which is hard to do without a dock) At times (especially at work) I will have many different windows open at the same time. Exposé at that time will become very cluttered and it will be very hard to find the window I want, minimising removes that because now the windows I do want are bigger than the small minimised ones. From looking at more screenshots from Gnome 3 it looks like their "activities" overview is a lot like Exposé.

mmastrac 16y ago

I thought this was silly until I read the article - as pointed out, the maximize function isn't being removed at all. Only the maximize button, which is an arguably terrible UI for the action, is being dropped in favor of dragging windows to the top of the screen. Minimize, however, is being dropped because there's just nowhere to minimize too. I rarely use minimize and this wouldn't be a big deal for me.

recoiledsnake 16y ago
Minimize is also not being removed,you can do it via short cuts or right click menu.
- mmastrac 16y ago
  Good to know, thanks. It appears that all they've done here is change the surface UI to make it lighter-weight by not doing things just because they've always been done. Makes sense to me.

naner 16y ago

This is hard to make sense of without knowing how the redesigned Gnome 3 desktop looks and works. You can get an idea on their website: http://www.gnome3.org/ http://www.gnome3.org/ http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/ http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/

bryanlarsen 16y ago

This will probably be much like the Ubuntu "buttons on the left" event. Lots of whining before the change, and not a peep afterwards.

junklight 16y ago

new devices are going to change the way we use our windowing managers. For example on my air things close and open so fast I try to close most things (especially those that remember their state) when I'm not looking at them - I don't minimise I close. Looking at the gnome 3 design can't help wondering if someone shouldn't be thinking of putting it on a tablet eventually (or rather working on a tablet directed branch) - might meet the "open" needs of hackers more than android.