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> What, exactly is the policy you think needs a protest to be enacted? A plan for re-opening. There should be reasonable targets of X transmission rate, Y avai

by aianus 6y ago

> What, exactly is the policy you think needs a protest to be enacted? A plan for re-opening. There should be reasonable targets of X transmission rate, Y available hospital beds, X masks, etc. that we can aim for and achieve. The lockdown here in Canada feels 10x more uncomfortable and hopeless than it needs to be because without a concrete plan for re-opening my mind extrapolates into "this will last forever, or 18-24 months for a vaccine". Nobody is willing to discuss an acceptable number of infections and deaths that we can aim for, they just say things like "health/lives at any cost" which is terrifying as it implies "lockdown until vaccine".

ajross 6y ago
> There should be reasonable targets of X transmission rate, Y available hospital beds, X masks, etc. that we can aim for and achieve. Is that what you think the protesters were agitating for? That doesn't sound like the complaint upthread, either. I think that's a great idea, by the way. I just don't think that such a policy would satisfy the people in question. > Nobody is willing to discuss an acceptable number of infections and deaths that we can aim for Alright, that's just silly. People, very serious policy people, are arguing about that stuff as we speak. > they just say things like "health/lives at any cost" Who is "they"? Who says this? That sounds like a strawman to me.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- aianus 6y ago
  > Alright, that's just silly. People, very serious policy people, are arguing about that stuff as we speak. > Who is "they"? Who says this? That sounds like a strawman to me. I can't find a single quote from Doug Ford or Justin Trudeau indicating what they think an acceptable infection/death rate is that would allow a partial re-open. I can find plenty saying the opposite (although I understand, you can't necessarily take these quotes literally): "I understand the actions we are taking are affecting the lives and livelihoods of people across the province, but these are extraordinary times and we need to do whatever we can to keep individuals and families safe and stop the spread of this terrible virus" - Premier of Ontario (https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/04/ontario-takes-further-action-to-stop-the-spread-of-covid-19.html https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/04/ontario-takes-further...)
anigbrowl 6y ago
Respectfully, this seems like a you problem. Most people are more tolerant of the uncertainty and seem content to wait for a clear trend of decline that can be extrapolated toward a target date. Nobody knows for sure how this is going to play out, and a wait-and-see approach is broadly preferred to a premature leap towards what might be a false place of safety.
- aianus 6y ago
  I don't expect a target date from them, I expect something like "we will re-open (partially, with such and such mitigations still in place) if and only if cases decline monotonically over a period of 7 days and we have 30,000 free hospital beds and 10 million N95 masks in stock".
  - yellow_postit 6y ago
    Is the claim that folks aren’t actively working on these types of guidelines? This is an information poor environment. I fail to see how any scientist would take such stringent targets as acceptable given that.
- nsxwolf 6y ago
  This is weird. Most people are just fine with this wait-and-see approach? Is this the uniquely Silicon Valley "I can work from home and my job is safe forever" viewpoint I've been hearing working class people complain about? Have you not noticed that we tech workers are getting axed left and right?

by aianus 6y ago

ajross 6y ago

> There should be reasonable targets of X transmission rate, Y available hospital beds, X masks, etc. that we can aim for and achieve. Is that what you think the protesters were agitating for? That doesn't sound like the complaint upthread, either. I think that's a great idea, by the way. I just don't think that such a policy would satisfy the people in question. > Nobody is willing to discuss an acceptable number of infections and deaths that we can aim for Alright, that's just silly. People, very serious policy people, are arguing about that stuff as we speak. > they just say things like "health/lives at any cost" Who is "they"? Who says this? That sounds like a strawman to me.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
aianus 6y ago
> Alright, that's just silly. People, very serious policy people, are arguing about that stuff as we speak. > Who is "they"? Who says this? That sounds like a strawman to me. I can't find a single quote from Doug Ford or Justin Trudeau indicating what they think an acceptable infection/death rate is that would allow a partial re-open. I can find plenty saying the opposite (although I understand, you can't necessarily take these quotes literally): "I understand the actions we are taking are affecting the lives and livelihoods of people across the province, but these are extraordinary times and we need to do whatever we can to keep individuals and families safe and stop the spread of this terrible virus" - Premier of Ontario (https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/04/ontario-takes-further-action-to-stop-the-spread-of-covid-19.html https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/04/ontario-takes-further...)

anigbrowl 6y ago

Respectfully, this seems like a you problem. Most people are more tolerant of the uncertainty and seem content to wait for a clear trend of decline that can be extrapolated toward a target date. Nobody knows for sure how this is going to play out, and a wait-and-see approach is broadly preferred to a premature leap towards what might be a false place of safety.

aianus 6y ago
I don't expect a target date from them, I expect something like "we will re-open (partially, with such and such mitigations still in place) if and only if cases decline monotonically over a period of 7 days and we have 30,000 free hospital beds and 10 million N95 masks in stock".
- yellow_postit 6y ago
  Is the claim that folks aren’t actively working on these types of guidelines? This is an information poor environment. I fail to see how any scientist would take such stringent targets as acceptable given that.
nsxwolf 6y ago
This is weird. Most people are just fine with this wait-and-see approach? Is this the uniquely Silicon Valley "I can work from home and my job is safe forever" viewpoint I've been hearing working class people complain about? Have you not noticed that we tech workers are getting axed left and right?