3 ms·
". . . the lockdowns are probably illegal, you can't just throw away freedom of association over the flu." Where did you study constutional law? Rights grante
by hsitz 6y ago
". . . the lockdowns are probably illegal, you can't just throw away freedom of association over the flu."
Where did you study constutional law? Rights granted in the constitution are subject to many restrictions. There is no explicit "freedom of association" in the Constitution, although it has been held to be implicit in freedom of speech. Free speech doctrine includes a "time, place, and manner" test that's applied to restrictions on speech when the government has a "significant interest" in the restriction[1] (e.g., national emergency for a viral pandemic). I don't know how the lockdowns (which are mostly not full lockdowns) would fare if Supreme Court were to apply the time, place, manner test, but I wouldn't presume to offer an offhand opinion that they're "probably illegal".
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Time,_place,_and_manner_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_Unite...
- sethammons 6y agoNot op. I am not a lawyer and I’ve not studied constitutional law. What I recall from high school is that anything not expressly stated as illegal is legal for citizens and any power not expressly given to a state or federal government is unavailable to them. A law has to exist that gives states and the federal government the ability to do what they are doing and that law needs to not violate special protections built into the Bill of Rights. With a state of emergency declared, some things can temporarily be enacted that under normal circumstances would not be legal. I don’t know if all the lock down rules are legal, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that governments have overstepped their bounds.
- saystupidthings 6y agoWell, you're wrong. They've shut everything down before for a pandemic, in the early 1900s. Supreme Court even ruled during that pandemic that ALL constitutional rights were suspended when a shop owner refused to vaccinate. Cheers. America blows.
- hsitz 6y agoYou may be remembering something, but you seem to be remembering it almost exactly backwards. It sounds like you are remembering something about the 10th Amendment, which reserves to the states any power that is not granted to the federal government in the constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_...
- sethammons 6y agoWhat part is backwards? I'll state what I did in reverse (ie, what I believe to be incorrect) A) Everything is illegal for a citizen unless granted as legal by a state or federal govt. B) The fed govt. can do anything it wants. The only things it cannot do are things that are expressly forbidden. C) A state can do anything it wants unless a law prevents it. D) A state of emergency does not expand the powers of the the state or fed govt. Those are the reverse of what I said I remember and none of those sound right. (for C/D, ignoring the supremacy clause)
- hsitz 6y agoIt is C that is pretty close to true. Laws don't give states their powers. It is in fact the states that make their own laws, subject to some restrictions from the U.S. Constitution.