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I just don't understand this sentiment. If some stranger wants to continue using Python 2, why does that bother you? Why did I not see this sentiment for C89

I just don't understand this sentiment. If some stranger wants to continue using Python 2, why does that bother you? Why did I not see this sentiment for C89 vs C99 for example?

qqssccfftt 7y ago
If some stranger wants to open a hole in the ozone layer, why does that bother you?
wrmsr 7y ago
Imagine if it was the day of the Super Bowl, and you wanted to go out to a sports bar that was going to be airing the Super Bowl. So you go out and find a bar that says they're throwing a Super Bowl party, and go in and settle in, and when it comes time for kickoff you realize that the bar is actually airing the Super Bowl from 10 years ago. Like, it would have been fine if they had called the party a 'Super Bowl from 10 years ago' party, and for some reason there's this part of the bar that seems to be all on board with rewatching the same Super Bowl from 10 years ago every year and frankly seems confused why the rest of the bar is confused and angry about it (I mean it's still the Super Bowl right?).
- cellularmitosis 7y ago
  Thanks for your perspective. Here's an analogy which illustrates a slightly different perspective: Imagine that 10 years ago, the NFL introduced a 50-yard indoor variant of the game, but saw no need to pick a different name for it, because obviously everyone would abandon the existing 100-yard stadium variant. Guess what's going to happen for the next 10+ years?
talentedcoin 7y ago
Mostly just because of all the oxygen this debate seems to suck up, and the lack of reasonableness around it. It also bothers me because some of this nonsense seemed to contribute to Guido stepping down as BDFL, which I think was a Bad Thing. Let me be clear: If people want to use Python 2 they can go nuts. They can even pretend it's a completely new language if they want to. If there's enough of them I'm sure it can be done. Just stop asking the community to support it, or the rest of us to care.
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
If a stranger wants to run anything on their system, alone, never touching anything else and never coming into contact, whatever. But I very much look forward to a world where "Python" == "Python 3" precisely because it keeps impacting me. If I use a package that continues to use python2, I have to keep a python2 installation on my system (complete with some set of modules). Meanwhile, I can use the very latest, 100% maintained GCC or Clang to compile any C standard version, so I don't think that's a good comparison.
- a1369209993 7y ago
  > Meanwhile, I can use the very latest, 100% maintained GCC or Clang to compile any C standard version, so I don't think that's a good comparison. So it's PSF's fault for not providing a -std=py2 option? I guess that's a sensible way to look at it.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    I would hesitate to call them at fault per se, but yes I think if such an option has been provided, particularly at a fine-grained level so that modules could be moved over piecemeal, we would not have had nearly as much difficulty with this transition. On the one hand, removing some of the pressure would have meant that the old versions stayed around longer, but if the system genuinely works and doesn't hold up the evolution of the overall project, I'm not sure that I see a problem with that.

I just don't understand this sentiment. If some stranger wants to continue using Python 2, why does that bother you? Why did I not see this sentiment for C89 vs C99 for example?

qqssccfftt 7y ago

If some stranger wants to open a hole in the ozone layer, why does that bother you?

wrmsr 7y ago

Imagine if it was the day of the Super Bowl, and you wanted to go out to a sports bar that was going to be airing the Super Bowl. So you go out and find a bar that says they're throwing a Super Bowl party, and go in and settle in, and when it comes time for kickoff you realize that the bar is actually airing the Super Bowl from 10 years ago. Like, it would have been fine if they had called the party a 'Super Bowl from 10 years ago' party, and for some reason there's this part of the bar that seems to be all on board with rewatching the same Super Bowl from 10 years ago every year and frankly seems confused why the rest of the bar is confused and angry about it (I mean it's still the Super Bowl right?).

cellularmitosis 7y ago
Thanks for your perspective. Here's an analogy which illustrates a slightly different perspective: Imagine that 10 years ago, the NFL introduced a 50-yard indoor variant of the game, but saw no need to pick a different name for it, because obviously everyone would abandon the existing 100-yard stadium variant. Guess what's going to happen for the next 10+ years?

talentedcoin 7y ago

Mostly just because of all the oxygen this debate seems to suck up, and the lack of reasonableness around it. It also bothers me because some of this nonsense seemed to contribute to Guido stepping down as BDFL, which I think was a Bad Thing. Let me be clear: If people want to use Python 2 they can go nuts. They can even pretend it's a completely new language if they want to. If there's enough of them I'm sure it can be done. Just stop asking the community to support it, or the rest of us to care.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

If a stranger wants to run anything on their system, alone, never touching anything else and never coming into contact, whatever. But I very much look forward to a world where "Python" == "Python 3" precisely because it keeps impacting me. If I use a package that continues to use python2, I have to keep a python2 installation on my system (complete with some set of modules). Meanwhile, I can use the very latest, 100% maintained GCC or Clang to compile any C standard version, so I don't think that's a good comparison.

a1369209993 7y ago
> Meanwhile, I can use the very latest, 100% maintained GCC or Clang to compile any C standard version, so I don't think that's a good comparison. So it's PSF's fault for not providing a -std=py2 option? I guess that's a sensible way to look at it.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  I would hesitate to call them at fault per se, but yes I think if such an option has been provided, particularly at a fine-grained level so that modules could be moved over piecemeal, we would not have had nearly as much difficulty with this transition. On the one hand, removing some of the pressure would have meant that the old versions stayed around longer, but if the system genuinely works and doesn't hold up the evolution of the overall project, I'm not sure that I see a problem with that.