2 ms·

I am getting confused now. My ESL'ness might be getting in the way of us communicating. Based on how the okay sign thing went, with all of its false positives

by ulucs 6y ago

I am getting confused now. My ESL'ness might be getting in the way of us communicating. Based on how the okay sign thing went, with all of its false positives (which are the innocent victims), I don't think the "dog whistles" give a clear enough signal. Your examples also use judgement from context rather than the dog whistles which is in line with what I've said. The other poster turned out to be a clear troll, and arguing with them on what the dog whistles mean is giving them just what they want.

monocasa 6y ago
> Based on how the okay sign thing went, with all of its false positives (which are the innocent victims), I don't think the "dog whistles" give a clear enough signal. Your examples also use judgement from context rather than the dog whistles which is in line with what I've said. Can you give an example of one of these false positive victims?
- stale2002 6y ago
  > Can you give an example of one of these false positive victims? Sure, I can. There was a viral example when Zina Bash, a white house advisor, was sitting in a senate hearing, with her hand on her arms, in a way where her fingers kind of looked like the OK sign, but not really. As in, she did not "flash" the OK sign. Instead she had her hand resting on her arm in a certain position. And this went viral and everyone accused her of being a white supremicist because of it, even though the situation was clearly ridiculous. You can look it up, if you want more details.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    I mean, one tweet called her out, and the left wing media and the ADL came out specifically to defend her, specifically calling out that it needed more context to be white supremacist symbol. Ie. what I've been saying this whole time. Also, it totally is an OK sign, she's just playing the circle game.
    - stale2002 6y ago
      Some defended her and some attacked her. Thats the point. The fact that anyone was even attacking her in the first place, and this went viral at all, is still a problem.
      - monocasa 6y ago
        So you agree that the left came out to defend her on this? She isn't a victim of the this concept being called out, but instead the white supremacists who decided to start using a contextual clue that they're being explicitly racist a common sign just because of the chaos it causes, and not the people calling out that racists are doing this.
        stale2002 6y ago
        > So you agree that the left came out to defend her on this? No. Instead I would say that some people defended here, and others on the left also attacked her, and the fact that there were basically anyone attacking her is still a huge problem. Regardless if there were people defending her, the fact that this was even a viral issue at all, is still a big problem. > and not the people calling out that racists are doing this. There were many (which is not all, I didn't say all, before you strawman me) people on the left attacking her.
saagarjha 6y ago
The example you picked, the ok symbol, is well known to have been misattributed to supremacists; another one is Pepe the Frog, which was a meme for almost ten years before it was appropriated by the alt-right (some might also throw a swastika in there, too, but usually from context it's obvious you're not discussing Indian religious symbols). As such, these make for poor dog whistles; actual dog-whistles have little or meaning outside of the context they're brought up in.

by ulucs 6y ago

monocasa 6y ago

> Based on how the okay sign thing went, with all of its false positives (which are the innocent victims), I don't think the "dog whistles" give a clear enough signal. Your examples also use judgement from context rather than the dog whistles which is in line with what I've said. Can you give an example of one of these false positive victims?

stale2002 6y ago
> Can you give an example of one of these false positive victims? Sure, I can. There was a viral example when Zina Bash, a white house advisor, was sitting in a senate hearing, with her hand on her arms, in a way where her fingers kind of looked like the OK sign, but not really. As in, she did not "flash" the OK sign. Instead she had her hand resting on her arm in a certain position. And this went viral and everyone accused her of being a white supremicist because of it, even though the situation was clearly ridiculous. You can look it up, if you want more details.
- monocasa 6y ago
  I mean, one tweet called her out, and the left wing media and the ADL came out specifically to defend her, specifically calling out that it needed more context to be white supremacist symbol. Ie. what I've been saying this whole time. Also, it totally is an OK sign, she's just playing the circle game.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    Some defended her and some attacked her. Thats the point. The fact that anyone was even attacking her in the first place, and this went viral at all, is still a problem.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      So you agree that the left came out to defend her on this? She isn't a victim of the this concept being called out, but instead the white supremacists who decided to start using a contextual clue that they're being explicitly racist a common sign just because of the chaos it causes, and not the people calling out that racists are doing this.
      - stale2002 6y ago
        > So you agree that the left came out to defend her on this? No. Instead I would say that some people defended here, and others on the left also attacked her, and the fact that there were basically anyone attacking her is still a huge problem. Regardless if there were people defending her, the fact that this was even a viral issue at all, is still a big problem. > and not the people calling out that racists are doing this. There were many (which is not all, I didn't say all, before you strawman me) people on the left attacking her.

saagarjha 6y ago

The example you picked, the ok symbol, is well known to have been misattributed to supremacists; another one is Pepe the Frog, which was a meme for almost ten years before it was appropriated by the alt-right (some might also throw a swastika in there, too, but usually from context it's obvious you're not discussing Indian religious symbols). As such, these make for poor dog whistles; actual dog-whistles have little or meaning outside of the context they're brought up in.