5 ms·

It's not the seizing that bothers me. It's that I have not seen any (credible) stories of where the seized PPE goes.

by thecolorblue 6y ago

hitpointdrew 6y ago
No audit trail whatsoever, disgusting.
throwaway894345 6y ago
Are any congresspeople pissed about this? Can't they demand an account of where the PPE is going?
- paulmd 6y ago
  They can demand but Trump won't answer subpoenas. Whatcha gonna do, the constitutional answer to a rogue president bucking congressional oversight is impeachment but the Senate already made it clear there's no possible act that could get them to convict.
  - woah 6y ago
    This sounds like a political opinion, but every part of it is a simple, commonly acknowledged fact
- kevingadd 6y ago
  Lawmakers don't have any actual power if the agencies resist them. One great example of this was during the initial travel bans, both lawmakers and judges were unable to get CBP/DHS to actually comply with orders because the government employees working for those agencies simply ignored them. When that happens the only real option a judge has is to send federal marshals out to enforce an order (as far as I know), and there's no guarantee the marshals will listen.
  - xnyan 6y ago
    >Lawmakers don't have any actual power This is not true at all. Congress controls the purse. CBP can ignore all they want, but they would probably be more pliable if they were not getting paid. Also "...all civil officers of the United States" can be removed directly by the Senate. In practice this is limited to heads of agencies at the lowest but that is just a practice, anyone executing federal power is applicable.
VectorLock 6y ago
We shipped actual palettes of cash to Iraq that disappeared with no oversight. This isn't Iraq but the same human forces are in play here.
- grayed-down 6y ago
  Don't forget the pallets of cash to Iran!
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    https://apnews.com/727282bdead6489a8521059936375210/AP-FACT-CHECK:-Trump%27s-Iran-cash-story-oft-told,-still-bogus https://apnews.com/727282bdead6489a8521059936375210/AP-FACT-... > President Donald Trump likes to tell a story about the U.S. paying out billions of dollars to Iran as part of the multinational deal freezing its nuclear program and easing sanctions against it. What he doesn’t say is that most of that money was Iran’s to begin with. The rest relates to an old debt the U.S. had with Iran.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      I was think of Iran Contra when I read it
    - grayed-down 6y ago
      True, but those funds were being withheld from Iran for a very good reason.
      - vkou 6y ago
        The reason being that US propped up a brutal totalitarian pro-US dictator in Iran that was overthrown, and ended up with a mutually dysfunctional relationship with the people who overthrew him. It then gave weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein, in his invasion of Iran, which did little to help that relationship.
- pstuart 6y ago
cma 6y ago
FEMA sends some to market to new distributors that have sprung up: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/republican-fundraiser-company-coronavirus-152184 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/republican-fundrais...
cameldrv 6y ago
Blue Flame Medical seems to be well supplied.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Yep. Started out of nowhere a few weeks/months ago by someone who has no experience in medical supplies whatsoever, who says "We found new supply chains". And is heavily involved with Republican heavyweights.
  - throwaway5752 6y ago
    This needs to be a lot higher up. This is literally killing doctors and nurses to enrich people with particular political connections: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/fvhwjo/federal_government_outbids_kentucky_for_medical/fmj626e/ https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/fvhwjo/federal_govern... If anyone can explain how a new entrant into supply/distribution of medical equipment was started and got large supplies of critical and scarce equipment that is being actively confiscated by government agencies in orders from other countries/private US companies... I am all ears.
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      > This is literally killing doctors and nurses Technically it's more like choosing which doctors and nurses die based on political connections and electoral math, since somebody is still getting the stuff. Which is still disgusting, but let's not pretend this is operating under a fundamentally different incentive system than the one in which Congress allocates tax dollars. If you want to fix it then fix the whole of it.
toomim 6y ago
Furthermore, the heads of hospitals are outright saying that they are not seeing any PPE from these "stockpiles". So it's not going to them!
- op00to 6y ago
  Oh, they're getting the PPE. Through these "shady" non-standard deals.
- makomk 6y ago
  Not necessarily. The US government has supposedly been seizing masks off stockpilers who've been trying to price gouge, paying them the normal, non-inflated price, and then feeding them to hospitals through the normal supply chain (because they're not interested in setting up their own parallel distribution infrastructure).
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  Which hospital matters right, there's a wide range of need.
lurquer 6y ago
The article doesn't describe anything being siezed. The masks went to where they were itended.
- mark-r 6y ago
  It describes an attempted seizure. In fact two attempted seizures.
  - lurquer 6y ago
    No it does not. It describes an administrator meeting with shady brokers in a hanger at a small airport trying to buy masks contained in two food-delivery trucks. The FBI checks in. As it should. Sounds shady as hell. The FBI lets the shipment proceed. Then the administrator pens a letter with his 'exciting day' story. Big woop.
    - jeremyjh 6y ago
      Did you miss the part where a congressman had to get involved to get this past DHS agents?
      - lurquer 6y ago
        " the agents let the boxes of equipment be released and loaded into the trucks." Ok... the FBI said everything is on the up-and-up and the trucks are heading out. "But I was soon shocked to learn that the Department of Homeland Security was still considering redirecting our PPE." Oh no! Our hero has suddenly divined that the entire Department of Homeland Security is planning to swoop in and intercept the trucks (that the FBI just sent on their way.) What is our hero going to do? Who can save the masks from the nefarious DHS who, I'm sure, were even then sending agents out in black helicopters to finish the seizure that's the hapless FBI agents bungled? "Only some quick calls leading to intervention by our congressional representative prevented its seizure." Thank god! Where would we be without our auick-thinking administrator? A single phone call and he has saved the day! But, it wasn't without personal cost... "I remained nervous and worried on the long drive back, feelings that did not abate until midnight, when I received the call that the PPE shipment was secured at our warehouse." His angst and concern is moving. He deserves a raise. Where would we be without our hero? You want to know what really happened? Some cubicle-dwelling administrator drives to a banger, gets scared shitless by FBI agents, and embellishes the story to impress the other cubicle-dwelling adminstrators.
anm89 6y ago
It's not armed theft that bothers me. It's just that I'm not sure that someone I like gets to benefit from it because there is zero accountability.

It's not the seizing that bothers me. It's that I have not seen any (credible) stories of where the seized PPE goes.

hitpointdrew 6y ago

No audit trail whatsoever, disgusting.

throwaway894345 6y ago

Are any congresspeople pissed about this? Can't they demand an account of where the PPE is going?

paulmd 6y ago
They can demand but Trump won't answer subpoenas. Whatcha gonna do, the constitutional answer to a rogue president bucking congressional oversight is impeachment but the Senate already made it clear there's no possible act that could get them to convict.
- woah 6y ago
  This sounds like a political opinion, but every part of it is a simple, commonly acknowledged fact
kevingadd 6y ago
Lawmakers don't have any actual power if the agencies resist them. One great example of this was during the initial travel bans, both lawmakers and judges were unable to get CBP/DHS to actually comply with orders because the government employees working for those agencies simply ignored them. When that happens the only real option a judge has is to send federal marshals out to enforce an order (as far as I know), and there's no guarantee the marshals will listen.
- xnyan 6y ago
  >Lawmakers don't have any actual power This is not true at all. Congress controls the purse. CBP can ignore all they want, but they would probably be more pliable if they were not getting paid. Also "...all civil officers of the United States" can be removed directly by the Senate. In practice this is limited to heads of agencies at the lowest but that is just a practice, anyone executing federal power is applicable.

VectorLock 6y ago

We shipped actual palettes of cash to Iraq that disappeared with no oversight. This isn't Iraq but the same human forces are in play here.

grayed-down 6y ago
Don't forget the pallets of cash to Iran!
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  https://apnews.com/727282bdead6489a8521059936375210/AP-FACT-CHECK:-Trump%27s-Iran-cash-story-oft-told,-still-bogus https://apnews.com/727282bdead6489a8521059936375210/AP-FACT-... > President Donald Trump likes to tell a story about the U.S. paying out billions of dollars to Iran as part of the multinational deal freezing its nuclear program and easing sanctions against it. What he doesn’t say is that most of that money was Iran’s to begin with. The rest relates to an old debt the U.S. had with Iran.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    I was think of Iran Contra when I read it
  - grayed-down 6y ago
    True, but those funds were being withheld from Iran for a very good reason.
    - vkou 6y ago
      The reason being that US propped up a brutal totalitarian pro-US dictator in Iran that was overthrown, and ended up with a mutually dysfunctional relationship with the people who overthrew him. It then gave weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein, in his invasion of Iran, which did little to help that relationship.
pstuart 6y ago

cma 6y ago

FEMA sends some to market to new distributors that have sprung up: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/republican-fundraiser-company-coronavirus-152184 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/27/republican-fundrais...

cameldrv 6y ago

Blue Flame Medical seems to be well supplied.

FireBeyond 6y ago
Yep. Started out of nowhere a few weeks/months ago by someone who has no experience in medical supplies whatsoever, who says "We found new supply chains". And is heavily involved with Republican heavyweights.
- throwaway5752 6y ago
  This needs to be a lot higher up. This is literally killing doctors and nurses to enrich people with particular political connections: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/fvhwjo/federal_government_outbids_kentucky_for_medical/fmj626e/ https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/fvhwjo/federal_govern... If anyone can explain how a new entrant into supply/distribution of medical equipment was started and got large supplies of critical and scarce equipment that is being actively confiscated by government agencies in orders from other countries/private US companies... I am all ears.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > This is literally killing doctors and nurses Technically it's more like choosing which doctors and nurses die based on political connections and electoral math, since somebody is still getting the stuff. Which is still disgusting, but let's not pretend this is operating under a fundamentally different incentive system than the one in which Congress allocates tax dollars. If you want to fix it then fix the whole of it.

toomim 6y ago

Furthermore, the heads of hospitals are outright saying that they are not seeing any PPE from these "stockpiles". So it's not going to them!

op00to 6y ago
Oh, they're getting the PPE. Through these "shady" non-standard deals.
makomk 6y ago
Not necessarily. The US government has supposedly been seizing masks off stockpilers who've been trying to price gouge, paying them the normal, non-inflated price, and then feeding them to hospitals through the normal supply chain (because they're not interested in setting up their own parallel distribution infrastructure).
therealdrag0 6y ago
Which hospital matters right, there's a wide range of need.

lurquer 6y ago

The article doesn't describe anything being siezed. The masks went to where they were itended.

mark-r 6y ago
It describes an attempted seizure. In fact two attempted seizures.
- lurquer 6y ago
  No it does not. It describes an administrator meeting with shady brokers in a hanger at a small airport trying to buy masks contained in two food-delivery trucks. The FBI checks in. As it should. Sounds shady as hell. The FBI lets the shipment proceed. Then the administrator pens a letter with his 'exciting day' story. Big woop.
  - jeremyjh 6y ago
    Did you miss the part where a congressman had to get involved to get this past DHS agents?
    - lurquer 6y ago
      " the agents let the boxes of equipment be released and loaded into the trucks." Ok... the FBI said everything is on the up-and-up and the trucks are heading out. "But I was soon shocked to learn that the Department of Homeland Security was still considering redirecting our PPE." Oh no! Our hero has suddenly divined that the entire Department of Homeland Security is planning to swoop in and intercept the trucks (that the FBI just sent on their way.) What is our hero going to do? Who can save the masks from the nefarious DHS who, I'm sure, were even then sending agents out in black helicopters to finish the seizure that's the hapless FBI agents bungled? "Only some quick calls leading to intervention by our congressional representative prevented its seizure." Thank god! Where would we be without our auick-thinking administrator? A single phone call and he has saved the day! But, it wasn't without personal cost... "I remained nervous and worried on the long drive back, feelings that did not abate until midnight, when I received the call that the PPE shipment was secured at our warehouse." His angst and concern is moving. He deserves a raise. Where would we be without our hero? You want to know what really happened? Some cubicle-dwelling administrator drives to a banger, gets scared shitless by FBI agents, and embellishes the story to impress the other cubicle-dwelling adminstrators.

anm89 6y ago

It's not armed theft that bothers me. It's just that I'm not sure that someone I like gets to benefit from it because there is zero accountability.