5 ms·

have you considered some kind of presubmission check for this? even just to inform users without actually screening, and then auto appending previous discussion

have you considered some kind of presubmission check for this? even just to inform users without actually screening, and then auto appending previous discussions if submitted?

SilasX 7y ago
Well there’s the “past” button but you still have to click first. Maybe the “past” button could also list the number of previous submissions and the max number of comments of any submission (and/or max score)?
dang 7y ago
Yes but it's not clear how to get it right.
- jedberg 7y ago
  If you auto merged the comments from the last time, in theory they would quickly fall to the bottom because their time based value would be so much lower than the new stuff. Maybe also disable replies to old comments and make them a different color? To be fair, we could never figure out how to get this right on reddit either, but HN has a better comment sorting algorithm than reddit so it might actually work here.
  - jefftk 7y ago
    Why do you want to discourage replies to old comments?
    - jedberg 7y ago
      Because the people who made the comments won't know that someone replied since HN doesn't have a notification system.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Not a Hacker News feature, and probably not new to many here, but some might find it useful: http://www.hnreplies.com http://www.hnreplies.com
        jedberg 7y ago
        That was new to me, thanks!
      - jefftk 7y ago
        That doesn't seem like a reason to disallow necro-replies? The primary reason people write replies isn't communication with the parent commenter.
        jedberg 7y ago
        True but at the same time if you refute a claim someone made in the comments, it seems only fair to give them a chance to reply.
        jefftk 7y ago
        Which is a good reason to add a reply-notification system, not a good reason to block replies
        jedberg 7y ago
        I think HN lacks a notification system intentionally. HN is very much geared towards reducing flame wars, and I think that is part of it. If they wanted a notification system I'm sure they could have implemented it.
        dang 7y ago
        Yes, I think we'll continue to avoid the notification system, not just because of flamewars but also because (relatedly) it's not so compatible with curiosity. Push notifications seem to jack up the nervous system in a way that's good for engagement but not necessarily for users—we all experience this elsewhere on the internet, and on HN we're in the blessed position of not needing to juice the numbers. On the other hand, it can be hard to discover replies, and certainly new/interesting comments in large threads, when you want them. I'm currently working on a new-comment-highlighter (draws a colored bar to the left of comments since you last viewed the page) as one step toward helping with this. If anyone wants to help test this, email hn@ycombinator.com and I'll switch it on for you.
    - dang 7y ago
      Sorry for the delay - just seeing this now (ironically?) HN threads are closed to new comments after 2 weeks, mostly as a way of preserving history. A forum discussion is most meaningful as a snapshot in time. It would be weird if people could go back later to ancient threads and add comments based on information that wasn't available at the time. Actually, you can go back and look at very early threads, before this restriction was put in place, and it was already weird. Imagine what the original Dropbox Show HN would look like by now if we didn't restrict this. All that said, I think you guys are on to something interesting with thoughts about how the software could provide better access to the history, beyond just posting links to past discussions.
  - kryogen1c 7y ago
    what about automerging all comments +1 layer deeper with the bot comment (in the same form dang does it now) as the universal parent? it prevents the feature creep\bloat of adding a notification system, and maybe be backwards compatible with the web and mobile versions, and if people dont want it they can collapse the whole thread (or maybe it starts collapsed anyway)
    - jedberg 7y ago
      That's actually a pretty fantastic idea. I like it! Or just have a bot account post a link to the previous discussions. Even that would work, just so that dang doesn't have to do it manually.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    I definitely wouldn't want old comments merged in, even at the bottom—it would get confusing! A story about pandemics, for instance, might have a very different meaning in 2019 vs 2020, and comments should be clearly split to reflect that.
- kryogen1c 7y ago
  i take it by your edit you are concerned i was interpreting your "past posts" as some implication the OP should not have submitted - this is not the case. honestly, i just feel bad for you. what appears to me to be a repetitive google + copy + paste on your part is anathema to me, and i was trying to help stamp out such work. i think this has value, but im worried the amount of work involved grows (at a minimum) greater-than-linearly as HN grows.
- gitgud 7y ago
  A guy on Imgur made a bot named [1] "RepostStatistics" that would comment the last time a photo was posted, something similar might work [1] https://imgur.com/user/RepostStatistics https://imgur.com/user/RepostStatistics
drewzero1 7y ago
That would probably be helpful for informational use, but it seems to me like it would be frustrating to dump new comments into an old discussion. Maybe just a way to add a link to reference the prior discussion(s) like helpful people often do?

have you considered some kind of presubmission check for this? even just to inform users without actually screening, and then auto appending previous discussions if submitted?

SilasX 7y ago

Well there’s the “past” button but you still have to click first. Maybe the “past” button could also list the number of previous submissions and the max number of comments of any submission (and/or max score)?

dang 7y ago

Yes but it's not clear how to get it right.

jedberg 7y ago
If you auto merged the comments from the last time, in theory they would quickly fall to the bottom because their time based value would be so much lower than the new stuff. Maybe also disable replies to old comments and make them a different color? To be fair, we could never figure out how to get this right on reddit either, but HN has a better comment sorting algorithm than reddit so it might actually work here.
- jefftk 7y ago
  Why do you want to discourage replies to old comments?
  - jedberg 7y ago
    Because the people who made the comments won't know that someone replied since HN doesn't have a notification system.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Not a Hacker News feature, and probably not new to many here, but some might find it useful: http://www.hnreplies.com http://www.hnreplies.com
      - jedberg 7y ago
        That was new to me, thanks!
    - jefftk 7y ago
      That doesn't seem like a reason to disallow necro-replies? The primary reason people write replies isn't communication with the parent commenter.
      - jedberg 7y ago
        True but at the same time if you refute a claim someone made in the comments, it seems only fair to give them a chance to reply.
        jefftk 7y ago
        Which is a good reason to add a reply-notification system, not a good reason to block replies
        jedberg 7y ago
        I think HN lacks a notification system intentionally. HN is very much geared towards reducing flame wars, and I think that is part of it. If they wanted a notification system I'm sure they could have implemented it.
        dang 7y ago
        Yes, I think we'll continue to avoid the notification system, not just because of flamewars but also because (relatedly) it's not so compatible with curiosity. Push notifications seem to jack up the nervous system in a way that's good for engagement but not necessarily for users—we all experience this elsewhere on the internet, and on HN we're in the blessed position of not needing to juice the numbers. On the other hand, it can be hard to discover replies, and certainly new/interesting comments in large threads, when you want them. I'm currently working on a new-comment-highlighter (draws a colored bar to the left of comments since you last viewed the page) as one step toward helping with this. If anyone wants to help test this, email hn@ycombinator.com and I'll switch it on for you.
  - dang 7y ago
    Sorry for the delay - just seeing this now (ironically?) HN threads are closed to new comments after 2 weeks, mostly as a way of preserving history. A forum discussion is most meaningful as a snapshot in time. It would be weird if people could go back later to ancient threads and add comments based on information that wasn't available at the time. Actually, you can go back and look at very early threads, before this restriction was put in place, and it was already weird. Imagine what the original Dropbox Show HN would look like by now if we didn't restrict this. All that said, I think you guys are on to something interesting with thoughts about how the software could provide better access to the history, beyond just posting links to past discussions.
- kryogen1c 7y ago
  what about automerging all comments +1 layer deeper with the bot comment (in the same form dang does it now) as the universal parent? it prevents the feature creep\bloat of adding a notification system, and maybe be backwards compatible with the web and mobile versions, and if people dont want it they can collapse the whole thread (or maybe it starts collapsed anyway)
  - jedberg 7y ago
    That's actually a pretty fantastic idea. I like it! Or just have a bot account post a link to the previous discussions. Even that would work, just so that dang doesn't have to do it manually.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  I definitely wouldn't want old comments merged in, even at the bottom—it would get confusing! A story about pandemics, for instance, might have a very different meaning in 2019 vs 2020, and comments should be clearly split to reflect that.
kryogen1c 7y ago
i take it by your edit you are concerned i was interpreting your "past posts" as some implication the OP should not have submitted - this is not the case. honestly, i just feel bad for you. what appears to me to be a repetitive google + copy + paste on your part is anathema to me, and i was trying to help stamp out such work. i think this has value, but im worried the amount of work involved grows (at a minimum) greater-than-linearly as HN grows.
gitgud 7y ago
A guy on Imgur made a bot named [1] "RepostStatistics" that would comment the last time a photo was posted, something similar might work [1] https://imgur.com/user/RepostStatistics https://imgur.com/user/RepostStatistics

drewzero1 7y ago

That would probably be helpful for informational use, but it seems to me like it would be frustrating to dump new comments into an old discussion. Maybe just a way to add a link to reference the prior discussion(s) like helpful people often do?