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You call them "anti-worker laws", but they are just lobbying for laws which they believe will further their interests, which is exactly what unions do on the ot

by nickff 7y ago

You call them "anti-worker laws", but they are just lobbying for laws which they believe will further their interests, which is exactly what unions do on the other side. Perhaps Whole Foods should not be permitted to lobby for favorable legislation and regulation, but the same restriction should be applied to their counter-parties (the unions).

bjelkeman-again 7y ago
Union represent people, a company represents invested capital. It is not a given that these should be treated equally.
- nickff 7y ago
  The company represents people too; those people just happen to be shareholders, and not employees. There is also a spectrum of companies, from mom-and-pop corporations and sole proprietorships and worker-owner co-operatives through member-owned co-operatives, all the way to publicly-traded corporations.
  - elicash 7y ago
    Worth noting that there's not some Law of the Universe that says corporations SHOULDN'T represent the workers. In the United States, we've made political decisions that they shouldn't, and should instead only represent shareholders. But other countries have decided differently. And there are calls, for example, to have workers represent 40% of many corporate boards. https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/10/18/warren-workers-corporate-board-members-germany https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/10/18/warren-workers-co...
elicash 7y ago
I'm not arguing that corporations shouldn't be allowed to lobby. Of course they should. I'm arguing that we have a corrupt system that is terribly biased in favor of corporations and against working people and that it results in terrible laws that are easily exploited... and when companies get called out for anti-worker attitudes, they then turn around and blame the very laws they helped enact! Edit: Even though I don't want to ban lobbying, it's worth pointing out that a quick google search (with more time could find better numbers admittedly) shows how ridiculously unbalanced lobbying is. So, I mean, doing so wouldn't be good but is more radically pro-labor than basically anything that unions are asking for. Corporate lobbying: $3.42 billion. Union lobbying: Less than $50 million. So, like 70X. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/01/lobbying-spending-reaches-3-4-billion-in-18/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/01/lobbying-spending-r... https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?ind=P https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?ind=P

by nickff 7y ago

bjelkeman-again 7y ago

Union represent people, a company represents invested capital. It is not a given that these should be treated equally.

nickff 7y ago
The company represents people too; those people just happen to be shareholders, and not employees. There is also a spectrum of companies, from mom-and-pop corporations and sole proprietorships and worker-owner co-operatives through member-owned co-operatives, all the way to publicly-traded corporations.
- elicash 7y ago
  Worth noting that there's not some Law of the Universe that says corporations SHOULDN'T represent the workers. In the United States, we've made political decisions that they shouldn't, and should instead only represent shareholders. But other countries have decided differently. And there are calls, for example, to have workers represent 40% of many corporate boards. https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/10/18/warren-workers-corporate-board-members-germany https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/10/18/warren-workers-co...

elicash 7y ago

I'm not arguing that corporations shouldn't be allowed to lobby. Of course they should. I'm arguing that we have a corrupt system that is terribly biased in favor of corporations and against working people and that it results in terrible laws that are easily exploited... and when companies get called out for anti-worker attitudes, they then turn around and blame the very laws they helped enact! Edit: Even though I don't want to ban lobbying, it's worth pointing out that a quick google search (with more time could find better numbers admittedly) shows how ridiculously unbalanced lobbying is. So, I mean, doing so wouldn't be good but is more radically pro-labor than basically anything that unions are asking for. Corporate lobbying: $3.42 billion. Union lobbying: Less than $50 million. So, like 70X. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/01/lobbying-spending-reaches-3-4-billion-in-18/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/01/lobbying-spending-r... https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?ind=P https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?ind=P