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Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21127827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21127827 > They’re usually looking to discount your salary by 30-

by lbotos 7y ago

Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21127827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21127827 > They’re usually looking to discount your salary by 30-50% by some arbitrary cost of living factor. Discount off of what? The local max in SF? Google Does this now. Are you angry that Google isn't paying employees the same in SF and India? Remote IS a benefit. Lack of commute. Full control over workspace. In true remote "full control" over your schedule (lunch with friends. Time shifting work at a whim. More integrated lifestyle.) Like I said 6 months ago, please attack "physical" company comp with the same vigor as remote company comp. (I work at GitLab, these views are my own, etc etc etc and I'm still tired of this naive hot take.)

aantix 7y ago
“ Google Does this now. Are you angry that Google isn't paying employees the same in SF and India?” Yes, yes I am. If Jeff Dean moves to India are his commits suddenly worth 10% of what they were when in the Bay Area? There are high performing employees - regardless of where they contribute from that bring a ton of value.
- Kalium 7y ago
  > Yes, yes I am. If Jeff Dean moves to India are his commits suddenly worth 10% of what they were when in the Bay Area? No, but his options have probably changed and negotiating positions have probably shifted. Have you considered that others may view compensation as a negotiation? It sounds like you're operating from some variant of the labor theory of value and treating this approach as a moral imperative. If value is realized, compensation should be according to value, and nothing else should matter. Is that an accurate summary of your position? If that's accurate, might I suggest that this position is something an entrepreneur is ideally positioned to use to their advantage? Surely the world is full of excellent software engineers who would jump at the chance to be paid according to their value.
- geodel 7y ago
  What is more likely: Jeff Dean negotiating his salary and perks with whichever company and living where ever he likes or whining about salary inequity across different regions in the world? A-level players will try and get compensation what they think they deserve by negotiating discreetly. However most of the CRUD peddlers who are not in tech hubs remain aware they are not going to get Silicon valley salaries while living in some remote Indian town.
  - aantix 7y ago
    It’s not whining if you’re taking action. Push back on the employer. You bring value regardless of location. They desperately need your services. If you make the cut, you have the leverage in the negotiation. Quit being “Midwest nice” and you will probably get much more than you thought.
matthewbauer 7y ago
Google isn’t remote-only, although I bet plenty of people are angry that they do the same work as someone who lives near an ocean, but get paid less. Here’s a question I had on GitLab’s policy: Let’s say I move to SF for a few months starting out at GitLab. I then move back to a lower cost of living area, for family reasons. Is the paycut immediate, or is there some room for negotiation? Surely very few people are going to be happy have a loss of pay.
- freeopinion 7y ago
  Surely, if you provide great value to Gitlab you should be smart enough to be happy with a paycut. Rent alone could be $25-40,000/year difference. Commute could be 200-400 hours/year less. Take the $25K cut and buy a house with a pool. If your cost of living goes down 25% and your standard of living goes up 25%, wouldn't it be silly of you to be unhappy about a 20% loss of pay?
- lbotos 7y ago
  comp is based on where you spend 6+ months of the year: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-rewards/compensation/#relocating https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-rewards/compensation... As you can read here, talk to people ops about the plan and get approval.
detaro 7y ago
Gitlab isn't helped in public perception by proudly putting a precise calculation up front, especially while for years having totally off-base adjustments in there (I.e. suggesting people in the second-most expensive city in my country should get ~20 % less than people in a city with about half the actual CoL - although I believe someone realized that didn't make sense at some point). I'd also guess that to many, the difference when moving probably weighs more than salary when starting fresh. And yes, I'd criticize my current employer too if they'd try to cut my salary for moving.
- ghaff 7y ago
  I looked a while back and they seemed to have eliminated the silliest inequities in the US at least, e.g. state levels being based off the primary tech hub in many cases. (So you could live in a smaller city or rural area in many states and get paid based off the pay rate in Boston or Portland.) But, as I say, the last time I glanced some of that seems to have changed although I assume there are still ways to game it to some degree if you're open to living somewhere just to get the best GitLab bang for the buck.

by lbotos 7y ago

aantix 7y ago

“ Google Does this now. Are you angry that Google isn't paying employees the same in SF and India?” Yes, yes I am. If Jeff Dean moves to India are his commits suddenly worth 10% of what they were when in the Bay Area? There are high performing employees - regardless of where they contribute from that bring a ton of value.

Kalium 7y ago
> Yes, yes I am. If Jeff Dean moves to India are his commits suddenly worth 10% of what they were when in the Bay Area? No, but his options have probably changed and negotiating positions have probably shifted. Have you considered that others may view compensation as a negotiation? It sounds like you're operating from some variant of the labor theory of value and treating this approach as a moral imperative. If value is realized, compensation should be according to value, and nothing else should matter. Is that an accurate summary of your position? If that's accurate, might I suggest that this position is something an entrepreneur is ideally positioned to use to their advantage? Surely the world is full of excellent software engineers who would jump at the chance to be paid according to their value.
geodel 7y ago
What is more likely: Jeff Dean negotiating his salary and perks with whichever company and living where ever he likes or whining about salary inequity across different regions in the world? A-level players will try and get compensation what they think they deserve by negotiating discreetly. However most of the CRUD peddlers who are not in tech hubs remain aware they are not going to get Silicon valley salaries while living in some remote Indian town.
- aantix 7y ago
  It’s not whining if you’re taking action. Push back on the employer. You bring value regardless of location. They desperately need your services. If you make the cut, you have the leverage in the negotiation. Quit being “Midwest nice” and you will probably get much more than you thought.

matthewbauer 7y ago

Google isn’t remote-only, although I bet plenty of people are angry that they do the same work as someone who lives near an ocean, but get paid less. Here’s a question I had on GitLab’s policy: Let’s say I move to SF for a few months starting out at GitLab. I then move back to a lower cost of living area, for family reasons. Is the paycut immediate, or is there some room for negotiation? Surely very few people are going to be happy have a loss of pay.

freeopinion 7y ago
Surely, if you provide great value to Gitlab you should be smart enough to be happy with a paycut. Rent alone could be $25-40,000/year difference. Commute could be 200-400 hours/year less. Take the $25K cut and buy a house with a pool. If your cost of living goes down 25% and your standard of living goes up 25%, wouldn't it be silly of you to be unhappy about a 20% loss of pay?
lbotos 7y ago
comp is based on where you spend 6+ months of the year: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-rewards/compensation/#relocating https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/total-rewards/compensation... As you can read here, talk to people ops about the plan and get approval.

detaro 7y ago

Gitlab isn't helped in public perception by proudly putting a precise calculation up front, especially while for years having totally off-base adjustments in there (I.e. suggesting people in the second-most expensive city in my country should get ~20 % less than people in a city with about half the actual CoL - although I believe someone realized that didn't make sense at some point). I'd also guess that to many, the difference when moving probably weighs more than salary when starting fresh. And yes, I'd criticize my current employer too if they'd try to cut my salary for moving.

ghaff 7y ago
I looked a while back and they seemed to have eliminated the silliest inequities in the US at least, e.g. state levels being based off the primary tech hub in many cases. (So you could live in a smaller city or rural area in many states and get paid based off the pay rate in Boston or Portland.) But, as I say, the last time I glanced some of that seems to have changed although I assume there are still ways to game it to some degree if you're open to living somewhere just to get the best GitLab bang for the buck.