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> On my iPhone I move every single application into a folder named “.”. I then move that onto the second screen. My phone dock has four apps: Phone, Headspace,

> On my iPhone I move every single application into a folder named “.”. I then move that onto the second screen. My phone dock has four apps: Phone, Headspace, Things and SMS: Yawn. When I read these minimalism tips I always wonder if people giving this advice ever had a real job or if their job is actually giving people minimalism advice. Good luck trying to justify being the only one without Skype/Slack/Gmail

codegladiator 6y ago
Its like the advice "set your watch 10 mins behind" so you always reach on time. No shit I know its 10 mins behind every time I see the watch.
- Mvandenbergh 6y ago
  Sure, and yet... why is anyone ever late to anything? Let alone why are some people persistently late, in circumstances where that matters, and they know it's an issue? Rationally that makes no sense so dismissing techniques for resolving it that also don't make rational sense on that basis seems wrong.
  - codegladiator 6y ago
    Not sure what you are trying to say here. Do you mean "because we don't know why people are getting late so dismissing a solution which I know doesn't work seems wrong" ? But you do being the reply with "sure" so was that an agreement ?
    - Mvandenbergh 6y ago
      If you know that it doesn't work for you then obviously that's simply a fact. I thought you were making a more general statement that this doesn't work because it doesn't make sense (anyone using it would just adjust their timings).
  - ahmedalsudani 6y ago
    Humans are not rational (for the most part).
  - corecoder 6y ago
    In my opinion, the #1 reason why people are often late is because being early sucks, so they prefer to underestimate the time it will take to be there and all the (not so) unforeseen problems that may make them arrive late. I hate very much to be late, so I leave early and prepare a way to spend time if I arrive too early, like bringing a book to read or a podcast to listen to.
  - sodumbbutstill 6y ago
    they are late because being on time is inherently inefficient and detrimental to maximal value extraction from the lives of individuals and humanity as a whole. if you code then easiest analogy i can think of is that people tend to optimise for a certain wait time on average rather than always have cpu time available exactly when you need it.this is like - everyone should shoot to be at a meeting / event within a certain time frame that reflect the length of time this event is going to block them out for, how far it deviates from their planned activities and how much noticed they had. If everyone is sometimes late then many more important things will get done much faster as people didn't just drop what they were doing to be on time. rather than get upset by lateness I try to just never ask for people to be anywhere any given time..and if i am asking them then i think about how much extra time it takes out of their life to do it exactly when i asked (not 5 mins after or before - as both cause problems). I also factor into these considerations that time is an abstract concept - so humans will never really give a hoot what it has to say, outcomes matter. i have never met an "always on time" person that doesn't spend way to much pointless time checking the time and thinking about the time... much like the ridiculous lengths you have to go to when programming to stop processing something at the correct time (e.g. truly deterministic control systems or games with a strong commitment to never drop a frame but carry out tasks that take way more than a frame to do)
    - Mvandenbergh 6y ago
      It depends what you are on time for. I occasionally miss a train or a flight and that is deliberate because I optimise for minimal unproductive time waiting. The train/plane will leave without me if I am not there. However if people are persistently late to multi-attendee meetings it increases total wait time over all the attendees which is not optimal for the group. The more people are present and the less possible it is to start without them, the more wait time is being introduced by any person's lateness. Of course, there are far too many meetings with far too many people but that is a separate problem. If someone just needs to chat with me at some point online or at my desk if in the office, we will usually agree a vague time slot as that is a 2 sided problem only and I can work on other things until they arrive. If they ask me to meet in a particular place where I cannot work while in a wait-state, I expect them to be on time.
- wool_gather 6y ago
  You need to set it ahead, not behind. ;) Otherwise you'll be even more late. I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone, but I've been doing this for years, and it does help me. Yes, of course you always know that it's ahead, but it takes a moment for that fact to register, and that moment can be just long enough to incite action. (For those who have read Thinking Fast and Slow, I think this is sort of a "hack" of System 1.) Basically I'm leveraging the reactive part of my mind to help me achieve the result that the more strategic part wants.
  - codegladiator 6y ago
    > You need to set it ahead, not behind Yeah I actually realized that mistake some 30 mins after posting that I think but then left it like just wondering who will notice that :p
disiplus 6y ago
u got it wrong he moved the apps, not uninstalled.
jdsnape 6y ago
It's moving the apps out of sight, not uninstalling them. I've done this, and found that if I just idly pick up my phone I have to consciously decide what I'm going to waste time on, and often that bit of friction is enough to make using the phone less rewarding. I've also set the new tab page in my browsers to be blank and found that useful in the same way.
- corecoder 6y ago
  I'm happy that it works for you, but If I started to lock my phone in a safe and throw away the key, next thing I'd learn to pick the safe every five minnutes.
  - kd5bjo 6y ago
    At which point you'd have learned a new skill, and you're otherwise no worse off than when youu started.
  - jdsnape 6y ago
    Yeah it’s interesting because usually these sorts of things (like editing my hosts file) don’t work for me because I get annoyed by the restriction when I legitimately need to access something and undo it. I guess in this case it’s a small amount of friction not a complete block that works for me.
Ensorceled 6y ago
It's about being mindful, the blank page gives him an opportunity to "catch" himself before he swipes and does something that may be time wasting. If you don't need anti-procrastination advice why did you read (skim?) the article and why are you commenting here?
colourgarden 6y ago
Yawn. When I read such low-effort comments, I wonder if the people writing them ever read the article or if their job is just to spout off uninformed opinions.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  I think it's a valid comment that operating without email is a non-starter if you're employed.
paganel 6y ago
Your employer shouldn't expect you to be available on your phone via Skype/Slack. Gmail I guess it's ok, as long as it is the employee's choice when to check it or not. In my case the very urgent messages which needed to be done right at that moment (or at the first moment when I got the chance to be in front of a computer screen) have been sent either through SMS or via direct social app messaging (we're a small shop, we all know each other). I've had only a handful of such messages in 10 years of us working together.
sodumbbutstill 6y ago
I was scared of this kind of thing.. but when i have done it its actually way less harmful than expected. i am just honest with people and say i have not read their email or whatever, they tend not to mind that much.. as long as the things i say i will do get done. IMHO most need for constant communication is just tight coupling manifest in business logic i.e. bad design that needs addressing. When you can also follow up accusations of slacking with wasted clock cycle discussions its also handy (e.g. i tend to use toggl excessively if i think there is any chance of questioning my motives.. then i can switch to the always connected version of me they are asking for and show just how much time it wastes)
hinkley 6y ago
I am already fully booked for side projects, but one I've been wanting to tackle is to write a plugin for my IDE that just watches for signs of activity and temporarily sets the Do Not Disturb settings for up to some time limit. But just getting a pomodoro app that also manipulates DND would probably be a lot simpler.

codegladiator 6y ago

Its like the advice "set your watch 10 mins behind" so you always reach on time. No shit I know its 10 mins behind every time I see the watch.

Mvandenbergh 6y ago
Sure, and yet... why is anyone ever late to anything? Let alone why are some people persistently late, in circumstances where that matters, and they know it's an issue? Rationally that makes no sense so dismissing techniques for resolving it that also don't make rational sense on that basis seems wrong.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  Not sure what you are trying to say here. Do you mean "because we don't know why people are getting late so dismissing a solution which I know doesn't work seems wrong" ? But you do being the reply with "sure" so was that an agreement ?
  - Mvandenbergh 6y ago
    If you know that it doesn't work for you then obviously that's simply a fact. I thought you were making a more general statement that this doesn't work because it doesn't make sense (anyone using it would just adjust their timings).
- ahmedalsudani 6y ago
  Humans are not rational (for the most part).
- corecoder 6y ago
  In my opinion, the #1 reason why people are often late is because being early sucks, so they prefer to underestimate the time it will take to be there and all the (not so) unforeseen problems that may make them arrive late. I hate very much to be late, so I leave early and prepare a way to spend time if I arrive too early, like bringing a book to read or a podcast to listen to.
- sodumbbutstill 6y ago
  they are late because being on time is inherently inefficient and detrimental to maximal value extraction from the lives of individuals and humanity as a whole. if you code then easiest analogy i can think of is that people tend to optimise for a certain wait time on average rather than always have cpu time available exactly when you need it.this is like - everyone should shoot to be at a meeting / event within a certain time frame that reflect the length of time this event is going to block them out for, how far it deviates from their planned activities and how much noticed they had. If everyone is sometimes late then many more important things will get done much faster as people didn't just drop what they were doing to be on time. rather than get upset by lateness I try to just never ask for people to be anywhere any given time..and if i am asking them then i think about how much extra time it takes out of their life to do it exactly when i asked (not 5 mins after or before - as both cause problems). I also factor into these considerations that time is an abstract concept - so humans will never really give a hoot what it has to say, outcomes matter. i have never met an "always on time" person that doesn't spend way to much pointless time checking the time and thinking about the time... much like the ridiculous lengths you have to go to when programming to stop processing something at the correct time (e.g. truly deterministic control systems or games with a strong commitment to never drop a frame but carry out tasks that take way more than a frame to do)
  - Mvandenbergh 6y ago
    It depends what you are on time for. I occasionally miss a train or a flight and that is deliberate because I optimise for minimal unproductive time waiting. The train/plane will leave without me if I am not there. However if people are persistently late to multi-attendee meetings it increases total wait time over all the attendees which is not optimal for the group. The more people are present and the less possible it is to start without them, the more wait time is being introduced by any person's lateness. Of course, there are far too many meetings with far too many people but that is a separate problem. If someone just needs to chat with me at some point online or at my desk if in the office, we will usually agree a vague time slot as that is a 2 sided problem only and I can work on other things until they arrive. If they ask me to meet in a particular place where I cannot work while in a wait-state, I expect them to be on time.
wool_gather 6y ago
You need to set it ahead, not behind. ;) Otherwise you'll be even more late. I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone, but I've been doing this for years, and it does help me. Yes, of course you always know that it's ahead, but it takes a moment for that fact to register, and that moment can be just long enough to incite action. (For those who have read Thinking Fast and Slow, I think this is sort of a "hack" of System 1.) Basically I'm leveraging the reactive part of my mind to help me achieve the result that the more strategic part wants.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  > You need to set it ahead, not behind Yeah I actually realized that mistake some 30 mins after posting that I think but then left it like just wondering who will notice that :p

disiplus 6y ago

u got it wrong he moved the apps, not uninstalled.

jdsnape 6y ago

It's moving the apps out of sight, not uninstalling them. I've done this, and found that if I just idly pick up my phone I have to consciously decide what I'm going to waste time on, and often that bit of friction is enough to make using the phone less rewarding. I've also set the new tab page in my browsers to be blank and found that useful in the same way.

corecoder 6y ago
I'm happy that it works for you, but If I started to lock my phone in a safe and throw away the key, next thing I'd learn to pick the safe every five minnutes.
- kd5bjo 6y ago
  At which point you'd have learned a new skill, and you're otherwise no worse off than when youu started.
- jdsnape 6y ago
  Yeah it’s interesting because usually these sorts of things (like editing my hosts file) don’t work for me because I get annoyed by the restriction when I legitimately need to access something and undo it. I guess in this case it’s a small amount of friction not a complete block that works for me.

Ensorceled 6y ago

It's about being mindful, the blank page gives him an opportunity to "catch" himself before he swipes and does something that may be time wasting. If you don't need anti-procrastination advice why did you read (skim?) the article and why are you commenting here?

colourgarden 6y ago

Yawn. When I read such low-effort comments, I wonder if the people writing them ever read the article or if their job is just to spout off uninformed opinions.

koheripbal 6y ago
I think it's a valid comment that operating without email is a non-starter if you're employed.

paganel 6y ago

Your employer shouldn't expect you to be available on your phone via Skype/Slack. Gmail I guess it's ok, as long as it is the employee's choice when to check it or not. In my case the very urgent messages which needed to be done right at that moment (or at the first moment when I got the chance to be in front of a computer screen) have been sent either through SMS or via direct social app messaging (we're a small shop, we all know each other). I've had only a handful of such messages in 10 years of us working together.

sodumbbutstill 6y ago

I was scared of this kind of thing.. but when i have done it its actually way less harmful than expected. i am just honest with people and say i have not read their email or whatever, they tend not to mind that much.. as long as the things i say i will do get done. IMHO most need for constant communication is just tight coupling manifest in business logic i.e. bad design that needs addressing. When you can also follow up accusations of slacking with wasted clock cycle discussions its also handy (e.g. i tend to use toggl excessively if i think there is any chance of questioning my motives.. then i can switch to the always connected version of me they are asking for and show just how much time it wastes)

hinkley 6y ago

I am already fully booked for side projects, but one I've been wanting to tackle is to write a plugin for my IDE that just watches for signs of activity and temporarily sets the Do Not Disturb settings for up to some time limit. But just getting a pomodoro app that also manipulates DND would probably be a lot simpler.