4 ms·

Standardized total extracts of natural sources are pretty standard in the pharmacopeia, so what you're saying makes total sense. Making sure that the dosage is

by svara 7y ago

Standardized total extracts of natural sources are pretty standard in the pharmacopeia, so what you're saying makes total sense. Making sure that the dosage is standardized is a solved problem. Unfortunately this type of drug preparation is not that fashionable. One example of this is the total extract of St. John's Wort, which is superior to synthetic antidepressants in many cases, but doctors often prefer to prescribe the latter (presumably because a plant based medicine doesn't sound as powerful?).

throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
> St. John's Wort, which is superior to synthetic antidepressants in many cases, Oh boy, yet another claim without references.
- svara 7y ago
  "Several studies support the therapeutic benefit of St. John's wort in treating mild to moderate depression. In fact, some research has shown the supplement to be as effective as several prescription antidepressants." (https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/art-20362212 https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/a...) Synthetic antidepressants are by no means completely benign drugs, so having something that can be as effective for mild to moderate depression with a different side effect profile is really useful. Since you could easily have found this and many more sources, including all of the original studies, with a few Google searches, I'm taking your comment as further evidence of an irrational bias against phytopharmaceuticals.
  - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
    You: > which is superior to synthetic antidepressants in many cases Then justify this with: > some research has shown the supplement to be as effective as several prescription antidepressants (X > Y) != (X = Y) or in plain English, what you cite does not support your claim. > with a few Google searches You make the claim, you provide the references. > taking your comment as further evidence of an irrational bias against phytopharmaceuticals. I support what works regardless of origin. No person who has experienced severe depression would discard something that worked. I don't have time for idiots who presume 'natural' = 'better' though.
    - svara 7y ago
      "Effective" in the context of the text I quoted refers to efficacy against depression, but you need to also take the side effects into account when deciding between drugs. Since those vary on a case by case basis and can be significant, there are many cases where St. John's wort is overall the better deal.
      - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
        You are just dodging and fudging. Let me explain why reality matters. Those like you who have the blessing of decent mental health and do not understand - seem quite unwilling to understand in many cases - that those such as me who have to deal with this shit for all their lives can be deeply and negatively affected by you lot posting garbage. If it were a physical disease such as cancer you might be a lot less inclined to do it as you see the immediate link, from lack of proven efficacy to a fatal outcome. Mental unhealth, though, seems fair game to you. You are insulated from the negative consequences of your idiotic prognostications so you posting crap is like giving a child matches to play with in someone else's house. Not your house, not your house fire, not your problem. Please grow a little humanity and understanding; it's not a game for us, it can go from our lives made difficult, to our lives irretrievably wrecked.
        svara 7y ago
        I'm sorry that I seem to have offended you with what I wrote, but I honestly don't understand why. St. John's wort can be better in terms of side effects than synthetic antidepressants, with similar antidepressant effects, for some people. That's all I'm saying and that's an evidence based statement. I started looking into St. John's wort more closely because I saw the positive experiences that people close to me had with it. It's not all just theory to me. All that said, if you are really interested in the topic you should probably not listen to me but rather look at the actual studies that were done with it. I came away from that convinced that it's at least worth a shot for mild to medium cases of depression, and that it is underused relative to the synthetic alternatives.

by svara 7y ago

throwaway_pdp09 7y ago

> St. John's Wort, which is superior to synthetic antidepressants in many cases, Oh boy, yet another claim without references.

svara 7y ago
"Several studies support the therapeutic benefit of St. John's wort in treating mild to moderate depression. In fact, some research has shown the supplement to be as effective as several prescription antidepressants." (https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/art-20362212 https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/a...) Synthetic antidepressants are by no means completely benign drugs, so having something that can be as effective for mild to moderate depression with a different side effect profile is really useful. Since you could easily have found this and many more sources, including all of the original studies, with a few Google searches, I'm taking your comment as further evidence of an irrational bias against phytopharmaceuticals.
- throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  You: > which is superior to synthetic antidepressants in many cases Then justify this with: > some research has shown the supplement to be as effective as several prescription antidepressants (X > Y) != (X = Y) or in plain English, what you cite does not support your claim. > with a few Google searches You make the claim, you provide the references. > taking your comment as further evidence of an irrational bias against phytopharmaceuticals. I support what works regardless of origin. No person who has experienced severe depression would discard something that worked. I don't have time for idiots who presume 'natural' = 'better' though.
  - svara 7y ago
    "Effective" in the context of the text I quoted refers to efficacy against depression, but you need to also take the side effects into account when deciding between drugs. Since those vary on a case by case basis and can be significant, there are many cases where St. John's wort is overall the better deal.
    - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
      You are just dodging and fudging. Let me explain why reality matters. Those like you who have the blessing of decent mental health and do not understand - seem quite unwilling to understand in many cases - that those such as me who have to deal with this shit for all their lives can be deeply and negatively affected by you lot posting garbage. If it were a physical disease such as cancer you might be a lot less inclined to do it as you see the immediate link, from lack of proven efficacy to a fatal outcome. Mental unhealth, though, seems fair game to you. You are insulated from the negative consequences of your idiotic prognostications so you posting crap is like giving a child matches to play with in someone else's house. Not your house, not your house fire, not your problem. Please grow a little humanity and understanding; it's not a game for us, it can go from our lives made difficult, to our lives irretrievably wrecked.
      - svara 7y ago
        I'm sorry that I seem to have offended you with what I wrote, but I honestly don't understand why. St. John's wort can be better in terms of side effects than synthetic antidepressants, with similar antidepressant effects, for some people. That's all I'm saying and that's an evidence based statement. I started looking into St. John's wort more closely because I saw the positive experiences that people close to me had with it. It's not all just theory to me. All that said, if you are really interested in the topic you should probably not listen to me but rather look at the actual studies that were done with it. I came away from that convinced that it's at least worth a shot for mild to medium cases of depression, and that it is underused relative to the synthetic alternatives.