4 ms·

It is harder when the people who knew how to implement the plan were fired.

TMWNN 7y ago
Ah yes, yet another person who looked at the Snopes piece's headline and nothing else. One would think reading only that, or the Twitter thread (!) the piece is based on, that to save money (or because the Trump administration hates science, or something) the entire "US Pandemic Response Team" agency was eliminated and everyone in a large DC office building was fired. Actually reading the contemporary NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-trump-s-homeland-security-adviser-resign-n864321 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-t... and Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/0... articles the Snopes piece cites in the body, they seem to have been a handful of people in one team in the National Security Council hierarchy, that the new National Security Advisor reassigned to related agencies, as part of a desire to have his own hierarchical structure. Ziemer resigned because he wanted to keep his team the way it was. COVID19 was not a surprise; that is, it was known to exist in China some time before the first cases appeared in the US. It is not unreasonable for a government to assemble a team to respond to something like a pandemic as needed, as opposed to having people dedicated solely to the purpose and nothing else. And that's exactly what the US did, implementing the ban on non-American travelers who'd been to China in late January, among other things. You may or may not agree with this. But please don't claim that this is somehow prima facie proof of the Trump administration's malfeasance/evilness. PS - No, Trump did not "cut the CDC budget" either. https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104 https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104
- mschuster91 7y ago
  > COVID19 was not a surprise; that is, it was known to exist in China some time before the first cases appeared in the US. It is not unreasonable for a government to assemble a team to respond to something like a pandemic as needed, as opposed to having people dedicated solely to the purpose and nothing else. The USA have alerted NATO allies and Israel in mid-November (!) about coronavirus: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-dise... The ban on China travel came two months later. Two months of inaction that have cost a lot of lives. If it's any solace, us other NATO countries haven't been better, but at least our leaders were not as stubborn as to claim "corona was under control" until Feb. 24 or "[the Democrat's] new hoax" (Feb. 28) as Trump did. The ones who did not waste any time and who actually do have a standing pandemic response team are Asian countries like Taiwan - Taiwan is directly adjacent to China, has a shitload of travel to China under normal circumstances, got sidelined from the WHO thanks to Chinese pressure, yet only 422 cases with 6 deaths IN TOTAL. That's what happens when a competent government is in action: they locked down travels on end of december and put actual experts in charge. What does Trump do, in contrast? Infection rates are nowhere near "under control", and he appoints his daughter and son-in-law on a "council to re-open America": https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/14/21220755/trump-council-to-reopen-america-fox-news-economy https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/14/21220755/t...
  - TMWNN 7y ago
    >The USA have alerted NATO allies and Israel in mid-November (!) about coronavirus: Yes, the US alerted allied nations of a new disease that ought to be watched. Similar warnings went out for SARS, MERS, and Ebola, as well as (for example) the 1968 Hong Kong flu. >The ban on China travel came two months later. Two months of inaction that have cost a lot of lives. "Patient Zero" arrived in Seattle from Wuhan on January 15. At that point * The WHO was still denying that COVID19 could be spread by person-to-person contact. * Trump was still impeached by the House of Representatives and awaiting trial in the Senate. What would have happened if on January 1 Trump announced the only thing that would have prevented COVID19 from arriving in the US: A complete and indefinite shutdown of all land, sea, and air borders?[1] Trump would have been denounced by the entire world as a racist sexist fascistNaziKKK preparing to seize unlimited power to avoid being removed from office, using the thin pretext of a disease that seemed only China's problem. >"[the Democrat's] new hoax" No. Trump called the Democrats' response to what the administration was doing about COVID19 a hoax, consistent with his describing what led to his impeachment as a hoax a few sentences before the above words. [1] And before you say that that wasn't necessary, that a 14-day quarantine would have been sufficient, a) That time period wasn't known for sure then. Very, very little was known about the disease or SARS-CoV-2, partly because China wasn't saying anything and WHO wasn't inclined to get China to talk. b) A 14-day quarantine for all visitors is effectively a shutdown of the border. Very, very few people are willing to visit any country that mandates such a thing at entrance.
    - drapred7 7y ago
      I dont think he would have been called sexist for that. Be accurate and dont flame, especially when you get the big picture right.
      - TMWNN 7y ago
        >I dont think he would have been called sexist for that. CNN on January 30: "Coronavirus task force another example of Trump administration's lack of diversity" https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-diversity-obama/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/politics/donald-trump-coronav...
- icelancer 7y ago
  Citing sources won't protect you from people who reflexively downvote anything that could remotely look pro-Trump or anti-technocracy.
- drapred7 7y ago
  Wow. So the "Pandemic Response Team" that Bolton eliminated was really just two people in a white house advisory committee, who had the three people reporting to them moved to reporting to other committee members. If existance of two people on a comittee were the only thing standing between success and failure, then the US still has some deep systemic problems.

Ah yes, yet another person who looked at the Snopes piece's headline and nothing else. One would think reading only that, or the Twitter thread (!) the piece is based on, that to save money (or because the Trump administration hates science, or something) the entire "US Pandemic Response Team" agency was eliminated and everyone in a large DC office building was fired. Actually reading the contemporary NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-trump-s-homeland-security-adviser-resign-n864321 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-t... and Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/0... articles the Snopes piece cites in the body, they seem to have been a handful of people in one team in the National Security Council hierarchy, that the new National Security Advisor reassigned to related agencies, as part of a desire to have his own hierarchical structure. Ziemer resigned because he wanted to keep his team the way it was. COVID19 was not a surprise; that is, it was known to exist in China some time before the first cases appeared in the US. It is not unreasonable for a government to assemble a team to respond to something like a pandemic as needed, as opposed to having people dedicated solely to the purpose and nothing else. And that's exactly what the US did, implementing the ban on non-American travelers who'd been to China in late January, among other things. You may or may not agree with this. But please don't claim that this is somehow prima facie proof of the Trump administration's malfeasance/evilness. PS - No, Trump did not "cut the CDC budget" either. https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104 https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

mschuster91 7y ago
> COVID19 was not a surprise; that is, it was known to exist in China some time before the first cases appeared in the US. It is not unreasonable for a government to assemble a team to respond to something like a pandemic as needed, as opposed to having people dedicated solely to the purpose and nothing else. The USA have alerted NATO allies and Israel in mid-November (!) about coronavirus: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-dise... The ban on China travel came two months later. Two months of inaction that have cost a lot of lives. If it's any solace, us other NATO countries haven't been better, but at least our leaders were not as stubborn as to claim "corona was under control" until Feb. 24 or "[the Democrat's] new hoax" (Feb. 28) as Trump did. The ones who did not waste any time and who actually do have a standing pandemic response team are Asian countries like Taiwan - Taiwan is directly adjacent to China, has a shitload of travel to China under normal circumstances, got sidelined from the WHO thanks to Chinese pressure, yet only 422 cases with 6 deaths IN TOTAL. That's what happens when a competent government is in action: they locked down travels on end of december and put actual experts in charge. What does Trump do, in contrast? Infection rates are nowhere near "under control", and he appoints his daughter and son-in-law on a "council to re-open America": https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/14/21220755/trump-council-to-reopen-america-fox-news-economy https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/14/21220755/t...
- TMWNN 7y ago
  >The USA have alerted NATO allies and Israel in mid-November (!) about coronavirus: Yes, the US alerted allied nations of a new disease that ought to be watched. Similar warnings went out for SARS, MERS, and Ebola, as well as (for example) the 1968 Hong Kong flu. >The ban on China travel came two months later. Two months of inaction that have cost a lot of lives. "Patient Zero" arrived in Seattle from Wuhan on January 15. At that point * The WHO was still denying that COVID19 could be spread by person-to-person contact. * Trump was still impeached by the House of Representatives and awaiting trial in the Senate. What would have happened if on January 1 Trump announced the only thing that would have prevented COVID19 from arriving in the US: A complete and indefinite shutdown of all land, sea, and air borders?[1] Trump would have been denounced by the entire world as a racist sexist fascistNaziKKK preparing to seize unlimited power to avoid being removed from office, using the thin pretext of a disease that seemed only China's problem. >"[the Democrat's] new hoax" No. Trump called the Democrats' response to what the administration was doing about COVID19 a hoax, consistent with his describing what led to his impeachment as a hoax a few sentences before the above words. [1] And before you say that that wasn't necessary, that a 14-day quarantine would have been sufficient, a) That time period wasn't known for sure then. Very, very little was known about the disease or SARS-CoV-2, partly because China wasn't saying anything and WHO wasn't inclined to get China to talk. b) A 14-day quarantine for all visitors is effectively a shutdown of the border. Very, very few people are willing to visit any country that mandates such a thing at entrance.
  - drapred7 7y ago
    I dont think he would have been called sexist for that. Be accurate and dont flame, especially when you get the big picture right.
    - TMWNN 7y ago
      >I dont think he would have been called sexist for that. CNN on January 30: "Coronavirus task force another example of Trump administration's lack of diversity" https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-diversity-obama/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/politics/donald-trump-coronav...
icelancer 7y ago
Citing sources won't protect you from people who reflexively downvote anything that could remotely look pro-Trump or anti-technocracy.
drapred7 7y ago
Wow. So the "Pandemic Response Team" that Bolton eliminated was really just two people in a white house advisory committee, who had the three people reporting to them moved to reporting to other committee members. If existance of two people on a comittee were the only thing standing between success and failure, then the US still has some deep systemic problems.