6 ms·

"is to be overly generous with people like teachers" That seems to be the talking point nowadays. But, having a lot of family and friends that are teachers, ju

"is to be overly generous with people like teachers" That seems to be the talking point nowadays. But, having a lot of family and friends that are teachers, just isn't true from what I know. I'm not sure where you think the abuse is coming in (benefits, pay?) Most teachers salaries max out quite low compared to what could be made in private industry. And even their benefits aren't that much better than private industry, if at all. I have paid less for health benefits for the past 4 years in various jobs (for companies both small and large) and I always had better benefits than my sister, aunt, g/f, etc. Schools should absolutely be able to pick teachers that are both good and bad. But a blanket firing shows a complete lack of respect and lack of commitment to fixing a problem.

jpiasetz 16y ago
Do the PV calculation of their pension. Most of them are doing better then you think. Rhode Island's pension were guaranteed 3%. http://www.projo.com/news/content/pension_cuts_01-16-09_TOCVSQB_v28.450c3fd.html http://www.projo.com/news/content/pension_cuts_01-16-09_TOCV...
- ffumarola 16y ago
  Sure, which is why they are willing to accept less money. If the government wants, they can do as companies have done (at least one of past employers did): End pensions going forward, everyone currently employed is grandfathered in, new employees get 401k with a match, new employees have a different salary step system that maxes out higher. You're not arguing with someone who thinks the system is amazing as it is... it needs changes. But the teachers aren't the villains and they aren't living a life of grandeur.
  - TomOfTTB 16y ago
    This is the average salary and vacation time for a RI teacher... Average Salary: $64,130(elementary), $60640(secondary) Weeks of Vacation per Year: 15 (source: http://tinyurl.com/5dhgl8 http://tinyurl.com/5dhgl8) That's pretty good by today's standards. That's a salary of $1,733 PER WEEK that they work. I wouldn't consider a salary like that "accepting less money"
    - pluies 16y ago
      So do you think teachers just arrive in class on Monday morning and start teaching something out of thin air? A large amount of time is spent preparing material for class, and that time is not "vacation".
      - burgerbrain 16y ago
        Well it's certainly only a single data point, but my mother has been teaching the exact same lesson plan for nearly 15 years now. Even if I were to be generous and say 50% of her summer break were devoted to preparing for the next school year, which is an absurd overestimation, that's still waaay more vacation time than just about anyone else in this country gets.
        ffumarola 16y ago
        The bunch, it is not spoiled, by one apple that is bad. That's how the saying goes, right? ;)
        burgerbrain 16y ago
        I certainly don't think there is anything at all wrong with teachers keeping more or less the same lesson plan year after year. From what I understand (and I have not personally studied this), the preferred teaching style in Japan and some other countries is to only make tiny incremental changes to lesson plans, year after year. Almost more of a scientific method or perhaps genetic approach to creating good lesson plans, as opposed to the more "artistic"(?) 'recreate it from scratch' method American teachers apparently use. But really, my point is that "teachers don't really get breaks because they spend the summer revamping their lessons" thing is an old tired meme that really needs to be critically examined.
      - yummyfajitas 16y ago
        It's not that large. During periods of the year when teachers work, they only work about 38 hours/week. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf The fact is, teaching is an incredibly easy job. Teachers work less than other professionals, they get incredible vacations, and ridiculous job security.
sixtofour 16y ago
"But a blanket firing shows a complete lack of respect and lack of commitment to fixing a problem." And it shows operating on ignorance. "You're fired. No, I don't know if you're a good or bad teacher. But you're fired."
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  Firing everybody allows them to make their decisions based on who is actually a good teacher, instead of only being able to base their decision on who has been their the longest. So really, you got it completely backwards.
  - sixtofour 16y ago
    I would think the good teachers feel just as fired and disrespected as the average and bad teachers. They're not being treated as individuals.
protomyth 16y ago
Technically, if you compare the same job (teaching) public vs private schools, counting benefits, public teachers make around 25% - 50% more. The whole "compared to private sector" needs to compare the same job.

jpiasetz 16y ago

Do the PV calculation of their pension. Most of them are doing better then you think. Rhode Island's pension were guaranteed 3%. http://www.projo.com/news/content/pension_cuts_01-16-09_TOCVSQB_v28.450c3fd.html http://www.projo.com/news/content/pension_cuts_01-16-09_TOCV...

ffumarola 16y ago
Sure, which is why they are willing to accept less money. If the government wants, they can do as companies have done (at least one of past employers did): End pensions going forward, everyone currently employed is grandfathered in, new employees get 401k with a match, new employees have a different salary step system that maxes out higher. You're not arguing with someone who thinks the system is amazing as it is... it needs changes. But the teachers aren't the villains and they aren't living a life of grandeur.
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  This is the average salary and vacation time for a RI teacher... Average Salary: $64,130(elementary), $60640(secondary) Weeks of Vacation per Year: 15 (source: http://tinyurl.com/5dhgl8 http://tinyurl.com/5dhgl8) That's pretty good by today's standards. That's a salary of $1,733 PER WEEK that they work. I wouldn't consider a salary like that "accepting less money"
  - pluies 16y ago
    So do you think teachers just arrive in class on Monday morning and start teaching something out of thin air? A large amount of time is spent preparing material for class, and that time is not "vacation".
    - burgerbrain 16y ago
      Well it's certainly only a single data point, but my mother has been teaching the exact same lesson plan for nearly 15 years now. Even if I were to be generous and say 50% of her summer break were devoted to preparing for the next school year, which is an absurd overestimation, that's still waaay more vacation time than just about anyone else in this country gets.
      - ffumarola 16y ago
        The bunch, it is not spoiled, by one apple that is bad. That's how the saying goes, right? ;)
        burgerbrain 16y ago
        I certainly don't think there is anything at all wrong with teachers keeping more or less the same lesson plan year after year. From what I understand (and I have not personally studied this), the preferred teaching style in Japan and some other countries is to only make tiny incremental changes to lesson plans, year after year. Almost more of a scientific method or perhaps genetic approach to creating good lesson plans, as opposed to the more "artistic"(?) 'recreate it from scratch' method American teachers apparently use. But really, my point is that "teachers don't really get breaks because they spend the summer revamping their lessons" thing is an old tired meme that really needs to be critically examined.
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      It's not that large. During periods of the year when teachers work, they only work about 38 hours/week. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf The fact is, teaching is an incredibly easy job. Teachers work less than other professionals, they get incredible vacations, and ridiculous job security.

sixtofour 16y ago

"But a blanket firing shows a complete lack of respect and lack of commitment to fixing a problem." And it shows operating on ignorance. "You're fired. No, I don't know if you're a good or bad teacher. But you're fired."

burgerbrain 16y ago
Firing everybody allows them to make their decisions based on who is actually a good teacher, instead of only being able to base their decision on who has been their the longest. So really, you got it completely backwards.
- sixtofour 16y ago
  I would think the good teachers feel just as fired and disrespected as the average and bad teachers. They're not being treated as individuals.

protomyth 16y ago

Technically, if you compare the same job (teaching) public vs private schools, counting benefits, public teachers make around 25% - 50% more. The whole "compared to private sector" needs to compare the same job.