5 ms·

The postal service is subject to a law saying it has to pre-fund it's benefit plans; this is due to a law passed by the Republican congress specifically so they

by olefoo 6y ago

The postal service is subject to a law saying it has to pre-fund it's benefit plans; this is due to a law passed by the Republican congress specifically so they could point to the USPS failing finances and use that as the excuse for privatising it. Just another part of our American heritage getting looted by private equity.

jariel 6y ago
Uhm, pre-funding benefit plans seems like a very responsible thing to do, given that many entities completely avoid funding them thereby creating ever increasing black holes of liabilities. Without them, administrators have the ability to spend as they please by handing out future liabilities. And FYI 'heritage' is no business to keep something operational. Either it works well, or it doesn't.
- kristopolous 6y ago
  Proactively sabotaging something and then using the consequences of the sabotage as evidence that it should be dismantled isn't "it either works or it doesn't". Such details actually matter. Incompetently legislating some thing to ruin isn't a failure of the thing, it's a failure of the people writing the legislation.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Requiring that benefits are accounted for is not 'sabotage', it's actually sound and transparent financial accounting. Such details actually matter! If, after the real cost of operating USPS is exposed and they cannot cover it with revenues - or - cannot be subsidised enough - then the US can make a more rational decision as to whether or not it should exist.
    - locopati 6y ago
      they are being required to prefund for 75 years.... no govt body has that requirement does the military cover itself with revenues? why is that okay but a public service like the mail is not?
    - kristopolous 6y ago
      That's a model not based on reality but on theory exercises with a set of axioms that get handpicked to support an a priori assumption, regardless of reality or evidence. People on purely ideological grounds killed off, for instance, the USPS savings system, which was a profitable banking arm. It took 20 years, for instance, of foot dragging after the stamp was tied to inflation to keep it good forever and not lose value. That was part of the original bill but killed off to make things more broken by people who run on "government is broken"... Yes, you're the one breaking it. People on pure fundamentalist ideology grounds have aggressively redefined the post office to force it to be unprofitable. The free market fundies have been yelling the "Communist" cry about usps since the 1950s, stabbing it at every opportunity. It's also not a fair analysis because fedex and ups get subsidies, tax breaks, and other kinds of assistance on the million dollar scale all the time, many times a year. They aren't free agents in the slightest. And unlike usps, they aren't being administered by people who want them to crash and explode. Many other industrial countries can do this at profit (Canada for instance), but of course, we are told we can't look at that either. It's such crazy time eating nonsense. They bark back that we dare ruffle the robes of the high priestess...pearl clutching is what they turn to. "We could fix it but then we wouldn't show how broken government is .. durr durr" knock it off already. These ideological fundies are con artists, a 21st century version of a street hustler who hide behind optics and theater. It's a huge criminal violation of the public trust
      - jariel 6y ago
        The very nature of the USPS, that requires massive government support just as mail usage fallen by 50% in the last 15 years, that few people use it for material purposes, that it continues to have massive unfunded pension liabilities - is ideological. That is should exist, or be 'owned by the government' is ideological. You haven't provided any evidence for your cynical argument: Using FedEx and UPS examples abnegates your argument because although they do receive subsidies here and there, it's nowhere near the magnitude of USPS. If the USPS were to need only that level of assistance, few would be concerned. Regular mail is an antiquated service that has considerably less value in the 2000's - it's a dying business and should naturally shrink to a tiny fraction of its previous use. Almost every bit of paper in the mail today is a waste, there's hardly a need for it. The Royal Mail [1] has been privatized and it's doing mostly fine. Not perfect, but arguably better than before. The fact it works well enough, informs us that those who believe mail must be public, archaic and highly subsidized are the ideologues. Personally, I don't care, but I also do not see gigantic public entities being able to adapt to major changes in market conditions. What America needs more than a debate over public or private is considerably better regulation in banking, finance, consumer goods etc.. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/fd051332-fc54-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167 https://www.ft.com/content/fd051332-fc54-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace...
    - cannabis_sam 6y ago
      This is how the beast gets starved..
0xy 6y ago
I agree with you in that it's an unreasonable expectation, but this does not explain the alleged crisis. By my calculations, their revenue numbers should be flat or slightly up now. Parcel volumes are up in excess of 150% where I live.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

by olefoo 6y ago

jariel 6y ago

Uhm, pre-funding benefit plans seems like a very responsible thing to do, given that many entities completely avoid funding them thereby creating ever increasing black holes of liabilities. Without them, administrators have the ability to spend as they please by handing out future liabilities. And FYI 'heritage' is no business to keep something operational. Either it works well, or it doesn't.

kristopolous 6y ago
Proactively sabotaging something and then using the consequences of the sabotage as evidence that it should be dismantled isn't "it either works or it doesn't". Such details actually matter. Incompetently legislating some thing to ruin isn't a failure of the thing, it's a failure of the people writing the legislation.
- jariel 6y ago
  Requiring that benefits are accounted for is not 'sabotage', it's actually sound and transparent financial accounting. Such details actually matter! If, after the real cost of operating USPS is exposed and they cannot cover it with revenues - or - cannot be subsidised enough - then the US can make a more rational decision as to whether or not it should exist.
  - locopati 6y ago
    they are being required to prefund for 75 years.... no govt body has that requirement does the military cover itself with revenues? why is that okay but a public service like the mail is not?
  - kristopolous 6y ago
    That's a model not based on reality but on theory exercises with a set of axioms that get handpicked to support an a priori assumption, regardless of reality or evidence. People on purely ideological grounds killed off, for instance, the USPS savings system, which was a profitable banking arm. It took 20 years, for instance, of foot dragging after the stamp was tied to inflation to keep it good forever and not lose value. That was part of the original bill but killed off to make things more broken by people who run on "government is broken"... Yes, you're the one breaking it. People on pure fundamentalist ideology grounds have aggressively redefined the post office to force it to be unprofitable. The free market fundies have been yelling the "Communist" cry about usps since the 1950s, stabbing it at every opportunity. It's also not a fair analysis because fedex and ups get subsidies, tax breaks, and other kinds of assistance on the million dollar scale all the time, many times a year. They aren't free agents in the slightest. And unlike usps, they aren't being administered by people who want them to crash and explode. Many other industrial countries can do this at profit (Canada for instance), but of course, we are told we can't look at that either. It's such crazy time eating nonsense. They bark back that we dare ruffle the robes of the high priestess...pearl clutching is what they turn to. "We could fix it but then we wouldn't show how broken government is .. durr durr" knock it off already. These ideological fundies are con artists, a 21st century version of a street hustler who hide behind optics and theater. It's a huge criminal violation of the public trust
    - jariel 6y ago
      The very nature of the USPS, that requires massive government support just as mail usage fallen by 50% in the last 15 years, that few people use it for material purposes, that it continues to have massive unfunded pension liabilities - is ideological. That is should exist, or be 'owned by the government' is ideological. You haven't provided any evidence for your cynical argument: Using FedEx and UPS examples abnegates your argument because although they do receive subsidies here and there, it's nowhere near the magnitude of USPS. If the USPS were to need only that level of assistance, few would be concerned. Regular mail is an antiquated service that has considerably less value in the 2000's - it's a dying business and should naturally shrink to a tiny fraction of its previous use. Almost every bit of paper in the mail today is a waste, there's hardly a need for it. The Royal Mail [1] has been privatized and it's doing mostly fine. Not perfect, but arguably better than before. The fact it works well enough, informs us that those who believe mail must be public, archaic and highly subsidized are the ideologues. Personally, I don't care, but I also do not see gigantic public entities being able to adapt to major changes in market conditions. What America needs more than a debate over public or private is considerably better regulation in banking, finance, consumer goods etc.. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/fd051332-fc54-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167 https://www.ft.com/content/fd051332-fc54-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace...
  - cannabis_sam 6y ago
    This is how the beast gets starved..

0xy 6y ago

I agree with you in that it's an unreasonable expectation, but this does not explain the alleged crisis. By my calculations, their revenue numbers should be flat or slightly up now. Parcel volumes are up in excess of 150% where I live.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]