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Sorry to be blunt but this is BS. Keeping a cat indoors is simply cruel. Cats need space. A house cat has a hunting ground around their home with a radius of 5

Sorry to be blunt but this is BS. Keeping a cat indoors is simply cruel. Cats need space. A house cat has a hunting ground around their home with a radius of 500m average. Male house cats can have up three times that even. If you absolutely want to have a cat and live in the inner city either get an old cat that (unfortunately) grew up indoors already or don't get a cat at all.

extra88 7y ago
That is certainly not true of all cats. I and my family have never had a cat with a problem being indoors, even the one who spent his first year in and out.
Sniffnoy 7y ago
Where are you getting these numbers from? Gwern[0], citing this paper[1] and John Bradshaw's book "Cat Sense" (note: I haven't read this book myself), gives much smaller numbers than that. Still much larger than what you'd find inside, but nowhere near the 500m (average!) or 1500m that you claim. [0] https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense ; search for "91 meters" [1] https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2020-kays.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2020-kays.pdf
- gumby 7y ago
  My sister reported encountering one of our house cats while riding her horse miles from our house. The other one never even made it as far as the horse paddock.
- Y-bar 7y ago
  Might have been a mistake from the person you are replying to, a circle with 91m radius has a circumference of 571m, close enough?
ornornor 7y ago
Cats that go outdoors get maimed. Lost. Stolen. Attacked. Run over. Are obese from eating their home food, hunted preys, and fed by neighbors. Live on average 7 years. Cats who stay indoors are much healthier, live 15-20 years, and are just as happy. Of course you need to play with them more so they don’t get bored, they need to have access to windows to look at interesting things all day. But it’s really only cruel if you expect your cat to live its own life without ever going outdoors. Otherwise they really don’t care. Ask any vet what they think of letting cats outdoors, you’d be surprised. And in the case of declawed cats: the pain can be so strong for the rest of their lives that it can drive them nuts causing all sorts of behavior problems. It’s illegal in a lot of places because that is cruel.
- kwhitefoot 7y ago
  My last cat was an outside cat and was never stolen, only attacked once by another cat, got lost once (found by a kind stranger who rang the number on his collar), was never run over despite his habit of sunning himself in the middle of public car parking spaces (people used to wait for him to get out of the way), eventually got a bit plump when he stopped hunting as he got older and finally died aged sixteen. So, who's anecdote is worth more? Or should we just agree that not all cats are alike, not all environments are alike
  - ornornor 7y ago
    Yours is an anecdote alright. I’m glad your cat was fine outdoors. If you don’t believe me, ask your vet what they think they probably are much more knowledgeable than you or me on the question. See also https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/ https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-out..., http://www.thehumanesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/indoors_outdoors.pdf http://www.thehumanesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/i... (PDF warning)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - kwhitefoot 7y ago
      No vet I have ever spoken to has volunteered any opinion on my cat going outside. Perhaps this is common in the US but it certainly isn't in the UK and Norway. Here is the UK Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals advice regarding cats: https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/cats https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/cats Notice how it has a link to another page titled "Help keep your cat safe outside"
- virtualritz 7y ago
  Can you show me any numbers for this, broken down by type of area? Outdoor cats obese? I've never seen any here in Germany. Ever. Indoor cats: many. Cat's eat prey when they're hungry. And they can't hunt enough to get obese. They get obese when they have access to food all the time. This is an owner-made problem. When neighbours gave our cat food once for a while we told them to kindly stop and explained why and they did. Attacked? By whom? Cats fight for territory; this is natural. For every point you bring I can bring several anecdotes that counter it since I grew up in the countryside and with cats. And they are anecdotes -- just as what you said is w/o substance w/o any statistics. But here I go anyway: Our first cat who lived until 17 years was wounded twice by other cats and once by rats. We had to have her treated only for the rat attack (antibiotics and some stitches). But that's expected. I had several accidents in my life. Certainly, if I never left my apartment/home/house they could have been avoided. But maybe then I would be depressed or have killed myself already ... unless I had access to window of course, to entertain me ... pardon my sarcasm. Seven years? I grew up on the countryside, village outside of Hamburg. We always had cats. After the first one died a neighbour's cat choose my parents as new can openers because the neighbours separated and the woman took the cat and the children and moved to an apartment on the other side of town. The cat just escaped and ran back to his territory. After the third time this happened the woman gave up bringing him back. He died four years ago at the age of 18.5. Seven years? No evidence for this here. With all the cats of our friends. One just died after 25 years. And they live in a small town with lots more traffic than my parents. Same goes for all the cats in the neighborhood of my parents house. I know most of them because they 'visit' as their territories overlap. Yes, we had friends who took two kittens from us. They lived next to a big road outside the village. After both got ran over by cars they stopped trying to have a cat (instead of opting to have on inside their 350sqm house, mind you). So it's a case by case decision for outdoor cats too. There are many factors that affect life span of a pet. I would be very careful with correlating indoor/outdoor as you do. Happiness: definitely. I've never seen an indoor cat w/o issues. They're minor when they have good owners and care but they are always there. Besides, personally, I'd rather have a shorter, happier life, than a long dreadful one. That's just me and I can choose. I go out lots, I drink alcohol, I drive a motorbike on freeways and a bicycle in rush hour traffic. All factors that are shortening my life expectancy. I choose so. Pets can't; no one asks them. But I would know what side of the answer to bet on if we ever can. Declawed? I never even heard of this. I do not think this is even a thing in Germany. I have two friends who are vets. One of them owns two outdoor cats. Never asked them what they think about this. Imho the choice to keep a cat indoors or outdoors often reflects the character of the owner. People who are more fearful in general, of the world, of their wellbeing, of things that could go wrong, tend to be over protective. Of children, pets, themselves, etc. As such: it is probably no coincidence to read misconceptions like yours in the age of helicopter parents. Beers!

extra88 7y ago

That is certainly not true of all cats. I and my family have never had a cat with a problem being indoors, even the one who spent his first year in and out.

Sniffnoy 7y ago

Where are you getting these numbers from? Gwern[0], citing this paper[1] and John Bradshaw's book "Cat Sense" (note: I haven't read this book myself), gives much smaller numbers than that. Still much larger than what you'd find inside, but nowhere near the 500m (average!) or 1500m that you claim. [0] https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense ; search for "91 meters" [1] https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2020-kays.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2020-kays.pdf

gumby 7y ago
My sister reported encountering one of our house cats while riding her horse miles from our house. The other one never even made it as far as the horse paddock.
Y-bar 7y ago
Might have been a mistake from the person you are replying to, a circle with 91m radius has a circumference of 571m, close enough?

ornornor 7y ago

Cats that go outdoors get maimed. Lost. Stolen. Attacked. Run over. Are obese from eating their home food, hunted preys, and fed by neighbors. Live on average 7 years. Cats who stay indoors are much healthier, live 15-20 years, and are just as happy. Of course you need to play with them more so they don’t get bored, they need to have access to windows to look at interesting things all day. But it’s really only cruel if you expect your cat to live its own life without ever going outdoors. Otherwise they really don’t care. Ask any vet what they think of letting cats outdoors, you’d be surprised. And in the case of declawed cats: the pain can be so strong for the rest of their lives that it can drive them nuts causing all sorts of behavior problems. It’s illegal in a lot of places because that is cruel.

kwhitefoot 7y ago
My last cat was an outside cat and was never stolen, only attacked once by another cat, got lost once (found by a kind stranger who rang the number on his collar), was never run over despite his habit of sunning himself in the middle of public car parking spaces (people used to wait for him to get out of the way), eventually got a bit plump when he stopped hunting as he got older and finally died aged sixteen. So, who's anecdote is worth more? Or should we just agree that not all cats are alike, not all environments are alike
- ornornor 7y ago
  Yours is an anecdote alright. I’m glad your cat was fine outdoors. If you don’t believe me, ask your vet what they think they probably are much more knowledgeable than you or me on the question. See also https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/ https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-out..., http://www.thehumanesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/indoors_outdoors.pdf http://www.thehumanesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/i... (PDF warning)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - kwhitefoot 7y ago
    No vet I have ever spoken to has volunteered any opinion on my cat going outside. Perhaps this is common in the US but it certainly isn't in the UK and Norway. Here is the UK Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals advice regarding cats: https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/cats https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/cats Notice how it has a link to another page titled "Help keep your cat safe outside"
virtualritz 7y ago
Can you show me any numbers for this, broken down by type of area? Outdoor cats obese? I've never seen any here in Germany. Ever. Indoor cats: many. Cat's eat prey when they're hungry. And they can't hunt enough to get obese. They get obese when they have access to food all the time. This is an owner-made problem. When neighbours gave our cat food once for a while we told them to kindly stop and explained why and they did. Attacked? By whom? Cats fight for territory; this is natural. For every point you bring I can bring several anecdotes that counter it since I grew up in the countryside and with cats. And they are anecdotes -- just as what you said is w/o substance w/o any statistics. But here I go anyway: Our first cat who lived until 17 years was wounded twice by other cats and once by rats. We had to have her treated only for the rat attack (antibiotics and some stitches). But that's expected. I had several accidents in my life. Certainly, if I never left my apartment/home/house they could have been avoided. But maybe then I would be depressed or have killed myself already ... unless I had access to window of course, to entertain me ... pardon my sarcasm. Seven years? I grew up on the countryside, village outside of Hamburg. We always had cats. After the first one died a neighbour's cat choose my parents as new can openers because the neighbours separated and the woman took the cat and the children and moved to an apartment on the other side of town. The cat just escaped and ran back to his territory. After the third time this happened the woman gave up bringing him back. He died four years ago at the age of 18.5. Seven years? No evidence for this here. With all the cats of our friends. One just died after 25 years. And they live in a small town with lots more traffic than my parents. Same goes for all the cats in the neighborhood of my parents house. I know most of them because they 'visit' as their territories overlap. Yes, we had friends who took two kittens from us. They lived next to a big road outside the village. After both got ran over by cars they stopped trying to have a cat (instead of opting to have on inside their 350sqm house, mind you). So it's a case by case decision for outdoor cats too. There are many factors that affect life span of a pet. I would be very careful with correlating indoor/outdoor as you do. Happiness: definitely. I've never seen an indoor cat w/o issues. They're minor when they have good owners and care but they are always there. Besides, personally, I'd rather have a shorter, happier life, than a long dreadful one. That's just me and I can choose. I go out lots, I drink alcohol, I drive a motorbike on freeways and a bicycle in rush hour traffic. All factors that are shortening my life expectancy. I choose so. Pets can't; no one asks them. But I would know what side of the answer to bet on if we ever can. Declawed? I never even heard of this. I do not think this is even a thing in Germany. I have two friends who are vets. One of them owns two outdoor cats. Never asked them what they think about this. Imho the choice to keep a cat indoors or outdoors often reflects the character of the owner. People who are more fearful in general, of the world, of their wellbeing, of things that could go wrong, tend to be over protective. Of children, pets, themselves, etc. As such: it is probably no coincidence to read misconceptions like yours in the age of helicopter parents. Beers!