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> The problem with UBI is that we would turn it back into the welfare system we have now. That's not a problem with UBI. IMO that scenario is not likely, let

by Jedd 7y ago

> The problem with UBI is that we would turn it back into the welfare system we have now. That's not a problem with UBI. IMO that scenario is not likely, let alone guaranteed. I appreciate a pessimistic outlook as much as the next guy, but I don't think we should abandon UBI because you think it may change in the future.

xsdklfsdfklj 7y ago
the argument against it [1] is practically that if it is being pushed by the current system it is to benefit the current system. As in, "uber needs a safety net for their drivers" kinda of vision, which given the track record in the US is very likely. [1] https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/universal-basic-income-inequality-work https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/universal-basic-income-inequa...
- Jedd 7y ago
  An interesting read, though it contains lots of generalisations and speculation presented as guaranteed outcomes. USA suffers from exceptionalism on a number of fronts -- it's unsurprising that claims of UBI (in)applicability is also on that list.
twblalock 7y ago
It is actually a problem with UBI: UBI does not line up with most people's beliefs about who deserves help, those beliefs are so powerful that they resulted in the creation of our existing welfare systems, and they aren't going to go away overnight.
- Jedd 7y ago
  Even if your claim is true, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a problem with UBI -- it could be a problem with 'most people's beliefs'. Consider that 'most people', in the west at least, consider it normal to work ~8 hours a day, 5 days a week, with 1-4 weeks holiday per year, and do this for ~45 years. Where did all those numbers come from, and how long have we (as either a culture, or better yet as a species) thought this is normal? I don't think anyone's suggesting that most people are inclined or capable of changing their beliefs, or rather habits, overnight -- but that's also not a reason to abandon the consideration of UBI.

by Jedd 7y ago

xsdklfsdfklj 7y ago

the argument against it [1] is practically that if it is being pushed by the current system it is to benefit the current system. As in, "uber needs a safety net for their drivers" kinda of vision, which given the track record in the US is very likely. [1] https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/universal-basic-income-inequality-work https://jacobinmag.com/2017/12/universal-basic-income-inequa...

Jedd 7y ago
An interesting read, though it contains lots of generalisations and speculation presented as guaranteed outcomes. USA suffers from exceptionalism on a number of fronts -- it's unsurprising that claims of UBI (in)applicability is also on that list.

twblalock 7y ago

It is actually a problem with UBI: UBI does not line up with most people's beliefs about who deserves help, those beliefs are so powerful that they resulted in the creation of our existing welfare systems, and they aren't going to go away overnight.

Jedd 7y ago
Even if your claim is true, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a problem with UBI -- it could be a problem with 'most people's beliefs'. Consider that 'most people', in the west at least, consider it normal to work ~8 hours a day, 5 days a week, with 1-4 weeks holiday per year, and do this for ~45 years. Where did all those numbers come from, and how long have we (as either a culture, or better yet as a species) thought this is normal? I don't think anyone's suggesting that most people are inclined or capable of changing their beliefs, or rather habits, overnight -- but that's also not a reason to abandon the consideration of UBI.