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I'm a non-German who lived in Germany, the US, and other places. As you say 'it's impolite' to talk about the citizens in a nationalist way, yes, but Germany (

by jariel 7y ago

I'm a non-German who lived in Germany, the US, and other places. As you say 'it's impolite' to talk about the citizens in a nationalist way, yes, but Germany (and many other nations) are still deeply ethnocentric - it's by default. Almost everything about Germany is 'German' and when almost all economic, political and social concern on a broader level is about 'Germany'. It actually takes some intellectual effort to go beyond and think in terms of 'Europe' or even 'The World'. 'Not being so nationalist' is a social artifact of many nations these days, and I suggest it's just a healthy dose of self-awareness, but it doesn't change the definition of what the community is in the minds of citizens. FYI I should point out that I don't think the US in a 'Germany model' would somehow result in the government building rocket-ships, but it would result in healthcare, better employment terms.

luckylion 7y ago
Possibly, though it's a cultural thing, so I don't believe you can simply say "we're switching to a Germany model". The US is very individualistic, Germany is more collectivist. Individualistic cultures are more unequal, have issues with high taxes, government regulations and so on. They are much more flexible, can react to changes and move fast. And, as the Facebook motto goes (or went), sometimes they break things. As for the claimed anti-nationalism, I fundamentally dislike it because it's a charade from start to finish. When "I want A" becomes amoral, everything gets wrapped in fifty layers of misdirection and rationalization, and finding compromise gets even harder because nobody can admit to what they actually want. It's a pathological trait in individuals, and I don't believe it's healthy on a society level. I'm not saying "that's how it has to be", rather "that's how it is, so let's not pretend it isn't". At the first sign of trouble, it's becoming evident anyhow, but if our arrangements are built on different assumptions, the damage will be much larger.

by jariel 7y ago

luckylion 7y ago

Possibly, though it's a cultural thing, so I don't believe you can simply say "we're switching to a Germany model". The US is very individualistic, Germany is more collectivist. Individualistic cultures are more unequal, have issues with high taxes, government regulations and so on. They are much more flexible, can react to changes and move fast. And, as the Facebook motto goes (or went), sometimes they break things. As for the claimed anti-nationalism, I fundamentally dislike it because it's a charade from start to finish. When "I want A" becomes amoral, everything gets wrapped in fifty layers of misdirection and rationalization, and finding compromise gets even harder because nobody can admit to what they actually want. It's a pathological trait in individuals, and I don't believe it's healthy on a society level. I'm not saying "that's how it has to be", rather "that's how it is, so let's not pretend it isn't". At the first sign of trouble, it's becoming evident anyhow, but if our arrangements are built on different assumptions, the damage will be much larger.