4 ms·

Well, that's one way to read into the facts. The point I'm trying to make is that there are few other companies where the rank-and-file have as much pull with

Well, that's one way to read into the facts. The point I'm trying to make is that there are few other companies where the rank-and-file have as much pull with executive leadership and can influence strategy based on moral reasoning.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
Google seemed comfortable losing any number of employees over Dragonfly, and firing organizers against it and other issues. It seemed like Congressional pressure, not employee activism, was what actually made the decision for them. Obviously Maven wasn't shut down due to government pressure, but I feel like you drastically exaggerate how concerned Google is about valuing its employees.
- altgoogler 6y ago
  I don't think comfortable is the right word. Jeff Dean personally talked to some SWEs to try and convince them to stay. Two people can take a valid moral stance and come to opposing viewpoints on the same subject. > I feel like you drastically exaggerate how concerned Google is about valuing its employees. I don't know what I would have to gain by such an exaggeration. It's not like there aren't a lot of current and X-Googlers that are highly critical [1] of the organization for a number of reasons. I'm not afraid of being critical, and I have nothing to gain by talking positively. Are there other companies that regularly survey (see Googlegeist) their employees and actually make some progress on issues? Do those companies hold regular meetings with the CEO (TGIF) where anybody can ask a question? Tough questions aren't rare. They are quite common. Which other companies have those both and a survivor benefit? I'm asking seriously because I think that it's quite rare. Do I have criticisms the company? Absolutely. But compared to corporate america, yeah, I will go out on a branch and say that Google values its staff. [1] http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/ http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    > I don't know what I would have to gain by such an exaggeration. I think Googlers like to believe their employer cares about them, and the internal activists in particular, like to believe they are effective at creating real change. Ultimately though, I believe the Congressional hearings created that change, and more Congressional action will be necessary to curb their other issues. > Are there other companies that regularly survey (see Googlegeist) their employees and actually make some progress on issues? This is actually incredibly common. My employer does it, and it's one of hundreds of companies in my local geographic area that participate in the given employee survey system. At our all hands meetings, the best and worst results are shared, as well as a plan to address where employees most feel improvement is necessary. > Do those companies hold regular meetings with the CEO (TGIF) where anybody can ask a question? No, but then again, neither does Google after they started getting real questions that they didn't want to answer: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/google-cancels-tgif-weekly-all-hands-meetings.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/google-cancels-tgif-weekly-a... (Side note, reading Steve Yegge's original platform rant was an incredible highlight of my early days on G+!)

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

Google seemed comfortable losing any number of employees over Dragonfly, and firing organizers against it and other issues. It seemed like Congressional pressure, not employee activism, was what actually made the decision for them. Obviously Maven wasn't shut down due to government pressure, but I feel like you drastically exaggerate how concerned Google is about valuing its employees.

altgoogler 6y ago
I don't think comfortable is the right word. Jeff Dean personally talked to some SWEs to try and convince them to stay. Two people can take a valid moral stance and come to opposing viewpoints on the same subject. > I feel like you drastically exaggerate how concerned Google is about valuing its employees. I don't know what I would have to gain by such an exaggeration. It's not like there aren't a lot of current and X-Googlers that are highly critical [1] of the organization for a number of reasons. I'm not afraid of being critical, and I have nothing to gain by talking positively. Are there other companies that regularly survey (see Googlegeist) their employees and actually make some progress on issues? Do those companies hold regular meetings with the CEO (TGIF) where anybody can ask a question? Tough questions aren't rare. They are quite common. Which other companies have those both and a survivor benefit? I'm asking seriously because I think that it's quite rare. Do I have criticisms the company? Absolutely. But compared to corporate america, yeah, I will go out on a branch and say that Google values its staff. [1] http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/ http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  > I don't know what I would have to gain by such an exaggeration. I think Googlers like to believe their employer cares about them, and the internal activists in particular, like to believe they are effective at creating real change. Ultimately though, I believe the Congressional hearings created that change, and more Congressional action will be necessary to curb their other issues. > Are there other companies that regularly survey (see Googlegeist) their employees and actually make some progress on issues? This is actually incredibly common. My employer does it, and it's one of hundreds of companies in my local geographic area that participate in the given employee survey system. At our all hands meetings, the best and worst results are shared, as well as a plan to address where employees most feel improvement is necessary. > Do those companies hold regular meetings with the CEO (TGIF) where anybody can ask a question? No, but then again, neither does Google after they started getting real questions that they didn't want to answer: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/google-cancels-tgif-weekly-all-hands-meetings.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/google-cancels-tgif-weekly-a... (Side note, reading Steve Yegge's original platform rant was an incredible highlight of my early days on G+!)