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The thing that has most surprised me during this pandemic, even more than the abysmal response of all Western governments, is how many people hate their kids (o

by tomp 7y ago

The thing that has most surprised me during this pandemic, even more than the abysmal response of all Western governments, is how many people hate their kids (or are at least extremely annoyed by them).

PeterisP 7y ago
I don't hate my kids, but I can either work from home or do childcare at home, not both at the same time. Trying to do both well is impossible (at least for me), and extreme annoyance is an inevitable result. Taking care of kids for the day while parents are busy working is one of the many key functions of modern education institutions, and they're not fulfilling that function right now - this gap needs to be filled somehow, and it's not an easy gap to fill without major changes of how millions of people work. E.g. going back to a situation where one spouse is a dedicated housekeeper and is pretty much forced not to work is technically a solution but I'm not sure if we as a society really want to go there. And the usual alternative solutions e.g. using extended family/grandparents for childcare, or cooperating/sharing childcare in a community tend to be explicitly prohibited by the social distancing measures.
- greedo 7y ago
  Warehousing kids should not be "one of the many key functions of modern education institutions."
  - monktastic1 7y ago
    Where did you read "warehousing?" The comment said "taking care of." Are you arguing that education institutions should not take care of kids?
    - greedo 7y ago
      I'm arguing that education institutions in the US should be tasked primarily with education, not babysitting, or "taking care" of kids. For a country that spends as much as we do on K-12 education, we get sub-optimal results, largely because some people view educators as glorified babysitters. Perhaps the value of educators will change as more parents deal with "taking care of their kids" during the various state shutdowns.
      - op00to 7y ago
        Speak for yourself. My state has excellent top-5 k-12 outcomes competitive with many top economies around the world.
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    Somebody has to take care of kids during working hours. It can be the parents only if we expect the parents (at least one parent in every family) not to work, which would require an immense reversal in our social structure. Something like 25% of families are single-parent families, do we expect all these people to quit their jobs in order to raise kids? To put it bluntly, if the alternative is to put women back in the role of 'Kinder Kuche Kirche' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche) then it justifies declaring that "warehousing kids" should be one of the key functions of educational institutions; simply because it's an important function that needs to be done by someone other than the working parent(s) and they can fulfil that function reasonably well. Sure, education should be a priority, but IMHO it's better for everyone involved if we explicitly acknowledge all the various valuable functions what our society needs (and gets!) from schools instead of falsely pretending that it's only the education. Or do you have in mind some other option that removes this role from the educational institutions while still allowing the parent(s) to go on full time employment?
ip26 7y ago
Small kids are a full time job 24 hours a day with no time off. Under lockdown, you can't even go out on date night or play dates (aka teamwork with other parents). They are also by nature incapable of being quiet for 8 hours.
tsss 7y ago
It doesn't surprise me at all, and I'm happy that so many people have to endure their terrible children now instead of sending them out to harass others.
op00to 7y ago
No. I love my children. I specifically chose work at home jobs because I want to be there for them. But it’s ok to want them to go away for a while too.

by tomp 7y ago

PeterisP 7y ago

I don't hate my kids, but I can either work from home or do childcare at home, not both at the same time. Trying to do both well is impossible (at least for me), and extreme annoyance is an inevitable result. Taking care of kids for the day while parents are busy working is one of the many key functions of modern education institutions, and they're not fulfilling that function right now - this gap needs to be filled somehow, and it's not an easy gap to fill without major changes of how millions of people work. E.g. going back to a situation where one spouse is a dedicated housekeeper and is pretty much forced not to work is technically a solution but I'm not sure if we as a society really want to go there. And the usual alternative solutions e.g. using extended family/grandparents for childcare, or cooperating/sharing childcare in a community tend to be explicitly prohibited by the social distancing measures.

greedo 7y ago
Warehousing kids should not be "one of the many key functions of modern education institutions."
- monktastic1 7y ago
  Where did you read "warehousing?" The comment said "taking care of." Are you arguing that education institutions should not take care of kids?
  - greedo 7y ago
    I'm arguing that education institutions in the US should be tasked primarily with education, not babysitting, or "taking care" of kids. For a country that spends as much as we do on K-12 education, we get sub-optimal results, largely because some people view educators as glorified babysitters. Perhaps the value of educators will change as more parents deal with "taking care of their kids" during the various state shutdowns.
    - op00to 7y ago
      Speak for yourself. My state has excellent top-5 k-12 outcomes competitive with many top economies around the world.
- PeterisP 7y ago
  Somebody has to take care of kids during working hours. It can be the parents only if we expect the parents (at least one parent in every family) not to work, which would require an immense reversal in our social structure. Something like 25% of families are single-parent families, do we expect all these people to quit their jobs in order to raise kids? To put it bluntly, if the alternative is to put women back in the role of 'Kinder Kuche Kirche' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_K%C3%BCche,_Kirche) then it justifies declaring that "warehousing kids" should be one of the key functions of educational institutions; simply because it's an important function that needs to be done by someone other than the working parent(s) and they can fulfil that function reasonably well. Sure, education should be a priority, but IMHO it's better for everyone involved if we explicitly acknowledge all the various valuable functions what our society needs (and gets!) from schools instead of falsely pretending that it's only the education. Or do you have in mind some other option that removes this role from the educational institutions while still allowing the parent(s) to go on full time employment?

ip26 7y ago

Small kids are a full time job 24 hours a day with no time off. Under lockdown, you can't even go out on date night or play dates (aka teamwork with other parents). They are also by nature incapable of being quiet for 8 hours.

tsss 7y ago

It doesn't surprise me at all, and I'm happy that so many people have to endure their terrible children now instead of sending them out to harass others.

op00to 7y ago

No. I love my children. I specifically chose work at home jobs because I want to be there for them. But it’s ok to want them to go away for a while too.