7 ms·

This is literally YMMV. Introverted people who had long commutes because they wanted a big garden, garage, etc (or couldn't afford to live somewhere popular) a

This is literally YMMV. Introverted people who had long commutes because they wanted a big garden, garage, etc (or couldn't afford to live somewhere popular) are living the dream right now. Extroverted people living in city centres who chose small flats based on being able to easily access the shared amenities, get to work quickly etc are worse off because none of that exists any more. It pretty much comes down to whether you made a housing decision (whether by choice or necessity) in the 'old world' that would become better under lockdown for you. By the numbers, I have no proof, but I guesstimate that the majority are losing out. Poor people have bad commutes and that's the group hit hardest because their jobs don't exist any more and they have no savings.

wjnc 6y ago
You describe my double feeling quite adequately. I'm so happy my children have enough space to play and partially live on without lacking much except school and friends. On the other hand I miss office life and the way it quitely demands social contacts and intellectual novelty in a way my home work doesn't. We get all work done, perhaps even more efficient than in the office setting, but the novelty sure is gone. My work has shifted from change to production.
jhoechtl 6y ago
The world is made up by extoverted leaders whereas the majority of people are intoverted ants.
- ojilles 6y ago
  This is so far from my perception. I find half the leaders around me are introverts, the other half extroverts.
mattacular 6y ago
There's way more to whether an individual is cut out to cope with an extended quarantine than their "choice" of housing and proximity to population center. I would argue that's probably one of the least influential factors. Way ahead of it would be things such as whether you have kids, a spouse, money, as well as other personality traits beyond just extroverted/introverted. Not to mention it's highly dubious to suggest that introverted people can or do avoid the city for housing and extroverted people avoid the suburbs.
- op00to 6y ago
  Jesus I wish my kids would go off to summer camp for a few months. They are what’s making this most unbearable for me.
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    Each to their own. For me one of the best things about about the lock down is being able to spend more time with my daughter and be more involved with caring for her.
    - touisteur 6y ago
      And learning to live together in a different way. One of my kids is learning to play around me, with very little interruption, is learning the concept silence during phone calls. She choses low energy activities now and it's great. Sometimes she wants to talk, or a hug, or to see what I'm doing, and it's OK, she's curious. Sometimes I'm not available and she drifts away, with no hurt feelings. And she also understands far better 'I' m trying to concentrate' now. I surprise myself taking breaks to drink tea and play with her (puzzles, reading, having her read, do some short yoga, sometimes even dancing with her a bit). It has brought my kids and I far far closer.
  - jeffrallen 6y ago
    I wonder if this time could be a gift to help you see things from their point of view. I suspect they are NOT dreaming of the moment they can ship you off to work again.
    - steve_adams_86 6y ago
      No, my kids seem to love being home. They're crafting, skate boarding, learning to bake and cook, playing with each other, generally being kids all day. The other day one of them said they can't wait for summer break. I asked what would be different and they said 'no school work', haha. They have about 60 minutes per day of remote learning to do. Apparently more of this would be okay. I thought they'd miss socializing a lot more than they do so far. Instead being trapped at home with dad is similar to vacation.
neilwilson 6y ago
That there are insufficient jobs for poorer people is entirely a political decision. Any country with its own currency can guarantee everybody has a living wage job to go to if it wants to. Which then has the advantage of competing with crap private and public sector jobs and eliminating them via simple market forces. The “what about the jobs, can I have a bailout” line no longer has any traction when everybody has an alternative job available on tap. Competition can be allowed full rein. Business has to pay the full cost of the labour it uses and innovate around that cost. But we prefer to use an unemployed buffer stock to constrain wages rather than an employed buffer stock. Always fewer jobs than people that want them. Then we wonder why productivity gains have largely gone to capital over the last 40 years.
vicheiJ2 6y ago
I agree with your general idea, but reality is probably a bit more complex than that. I consider myself an extroverted person (I love talking with people, to the point I have to restrain myself because I get the feeling they had "too much of me") and live in city centres for the reasons you describe. Yet, I've been working from home for 13 years, now, and totally love it. I still get the advantages of getting anything deliver to my door (it's way harder further from the city) and to be able to go out do anything should I wish it (which almost never happens). All in all, I'm glad working from home is seen as a new normal, because it's one less reason for people to call me "weird" and ignore anything I say. EDIT: oh and also, at almost 40, I still never had a driving license nor a car. I guess this can only happen working from home (no commute) in a city (good public transportation).
- wuunderbar 6y ago
  > I'm glad working from home is seen as a new normal I think this is TBD. There will no doubt be more prevalence of WFH allowed or WFH oriented companies, but I don't think we can say this will be the new normal quite yet.
  - loco5niner 6y ago
    Notice the difference between saying "A new normal" as GP did and "THE new normal" as you did. I, for one, would be happy for it to become "A new normal", where I get to take advantage of it, but understand there are people who prefer going into the office. No need for it to become "THE new normal" because there are all sorts of different kinds of people.
frobozz 6y ago
Yes, but "not going back to the way things were before" is not the same as "remaining exactly as they are now". There are plenty of shades in between. You can want to go back to visiting museums and galleries and pubs, playing team sports etc. Without wanting to go back to working the same hours as everyone else, shopping in crowded shops and struggling to get a coveted weekend appointment at the dentist or hairdresser or whatever.
lmilcin 6y ago
I would add people may be underestimating the costs of isolation. Going to work isn't only costing you commute, but also offers possibility to meet other people, grow your network, build friendships, get support, etc. Since this started relatively recently, we are living off already established network. But what is not visible is the network we are not creating, new people we are not meeting, our kids who are getting more impaired socially, and so on.
jakub_g 6y ago
Regarding short/long commutes, the real problem is why people are having long commutes - it's because most jobs are concentrated in small districts far away from human settlements. It's a very old school way of thinking, exacerbated and encouraged by urban planning schemes, tax deductions if you open an office in X instead of Y etc. It might not be easy to fix in many cases, but we must start decentralization if we want a better world. The pinnacle of centralization is France, where virtually everything important and interesting happens in a few areas of Paris, and putting stuff in Paris is the default, no-brainer decision.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

wjnc 6y ago

You describe my double feeling quite adequately. I'm so happy my children have enough space to play and partially live on without lacking much except school and friends. On the other hand I miss office life and the way it quitely demands social contacts and intellectual novelty in a way my home work doesn't. We get all work done, perhaps even more efficient than in the office setting, but the novelty sure is gone. My work has shifted from change to production.

jhoechtl 6y ago

The world is made up by extoverted leaders whereas the majority of people are intoverted ants.

ojilles 6y ago
This is so far from my perception. I find half the leaders around me are introverts, the other half extroverts.

mattacular 6y ago

There's way more to whether an individual is cut out to cope with an extended quarantine than their "choice" of housing and proximity to population center. I would argue that's probably one of the least influential factors. Way ahead of it would be things such as whether you have kids, a spouse, money, as well as other personality traits beyond just extroverted/introverted. Not to mention it's highly dubious to suggest that introverted people can or do avoid the city for housing and extroverted people avoid the suburbs.

op00to 6y ago
Jesus I wish my kids would go off to summer camp for a few months. They are what’s making this most unbearable for me.
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  Each to their own. For me one of the best things about about the lock down is being able to spend more time with my daughter and be more involved with caring for her.
  - touisteur 6y ago
    And learning to live together in a different way. One of my kids is learning to play around me, with very little interruption, is learning the concept silence during phone calls. She choses low energy activities now and it's great. Sometimes she wants to talk, or a hug, or to see what I'm doing, and it's OK, she's curious. Sometimes I'm not available and she drifts away, with no hurt feelings. And she also understands far better 'I' m trying to concentrate' now. I surprise myself taking breaks to drink tea and play with her (puzzles, reading, having her read, do some short yoga, sometimes even dancing with her a bit). It has brought my kids and I far far closer.
- jeffrallen 6y ago
  I wonder if this time could be a gift to help you see things from their point of view. I suspect they are NOT dreaming of the moment they can ship you off to work again.
  - steve_adams_86 6y ago
    No, my kids seem to love being home. They're crafting, skate boarding, learning to bake and cook, playing with each other, generally being kids all day. The other day one of them said they can't wait for summer break. I asked what would be different and they said 'no school work', haha. They have about 60 minutes per day of remote learning to do. Apparently more of this would be okay. I thought they'd miss socializing a lot more than they do so far. Instead being trapped at home with dad is similar to vacation.

neilwilson 6y ago

That there are insufficient jobs for poorer people is entirely a political decision. Any country with its own currency can guarantee everybody has a living wage job to go to if it wants to. Which then has the advantage of competing with crap private and public sector jobs and eliminating them via simple market forces. The “what about the jobs, can I have a bailout” line no longer has any traction when everybody has an alternative job available on tap. Competition can be allowed full rein. Business has to pay the full cost of the labour it uses and innovate around that cost. But we prefer to use an unemployed buffer stock to constrain wages rather than an employed buffer stock. Always fewer jobs than people that want them. Then we wonder why productivity gains have largely gone to capital over the last 40 years.

vicheiJ2 6y ago

I agree with your general idea, but reality is probably a bit more complex than that. I consider myself an extroverted person (I love talking with people, to the point I have to restrain myself because I get the feeling they had "too much of me") and live in city centres for the reasons you describe. Yet, I've been working from home for 13 years, now, and totally love it. I still get the advantages of getting anything deliver to my door (it's way harder further from the city) and to be able to go out do anything should I wish it (which almost never happens). All in all, I'm glad working from home is seen as a new normal, because it's one less reason for people to call me "weird" and ignore anything I say. EDIT: oh and also, at almost 40, I still never had a driving license nor a car. I guess this can only happen working from home (no commute) in a city (good public transportation).

wuunderbar 6y ago
> I'm glad working from home is seen as a new normal I think this is TBD. There will no doubt be more prevalence of WFH allowed or WFH oriented companies, but I don't think we can say this will be the new normal quite yet.
- loco5niner 6y ago
  Notice the difference between saying "A new normal" as GP did and "THE new normal" as you did. I, for one, would be happy for it to become "A new normal", where I get to take advantage of it, but understand there are people who prefer going into the office. No need for it to become "THE new normal" because there are all sorts of different kinds of people.

frobozz 6y ago

Yes, but "not going back to the way things were before" is not the same as "remaining exactly as they are now". There are plenty of shades in between. You can want to go back to visiting museums and galleries and pubs, playing team sports etc. Without wanting to go back to working the same hours as everyone else, shopping in crowded shops and struggling to get a coveted weekend appointment at the dentist or hairdresser or whatever.

lmilcin 6y ago

I would add people may be underestimating the costs of isolation. Going to work isn't only costing you commute, but also offers possibility to meet other people, grow your network, build friendships, get support, etc. Since this started relatively recently, we are living off already established network. But what is not visible is the network we are not creating, new people we are not meeting, our kids who are getting more impaired socially, and so on.

jakub_g 6y ago

Regarding short/long commutes, the real problem is why people are having long commutes - it's because most jobs are concentrated in small districts far away from human settlements. It's a very old school way of thinking, exacerbated and encouraged by urban planning schemes, tax deductions if you open an office in X instead of Y etc. It might not be easy to fix in many cases, but we must start decentralization if we want a better world. The pinnacle of centralization is France, where virtually everything important and interesting happens in a few areas of Paris, and putting stuff in Paris is the default, no-brainer decision.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]