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I don't disagree on the primary point you're trying to make, but I feel like you have a warped image of -at least- Germany. Germany has a housing crisis as well

I don't disagree on the primary point you're trying to make, but I feel like you have a warped image of -at least- Germany. Germany has a housing crisis as well, rent is through the roof in the major metropolitan areas. > The US doesn't really care that much about citizen v. non-citizen - the economic benefit in the short term is outsource/insource - there is no consideration for the population. That's very true for Germany as well. Germany's Nazi-past has left the political climate in a state of explicit denial of self-interest. Obviously, Germany very much has political and economical interests as any nation will. The main difference compared to the US, Britain or France is that it's a big no-no to say so in Germany. Concerns about the impact of decisions on Germany's citizens are considered nationalist and suspect of being far right.

jariel 7y ago
I'm a non-German who lived in Germany, the US, and other places. As you say 'it's impolite' to talk about the citizens in a nationalist way, yes, but Germany (and many other nations) are still deeply ethnocentric - it's by default. Almost everything about Germany is 'German' and when almost all economic, political and social concern on a broader level is about 'Germany'. It actually takes some intellectual effort to go beyond and think in terms of 'Europe' or even 'The World'. 'Not being so nationalist' is a social artifact of many nations these days, and I suggest it's just a healthy dose of self-awareness, but it doesn't change the definition of what the community is in the minds of citizens. FYI I should point out that I don't think the US in a 'Germany model' would somehow result in the government building rocket-ships, but it would result in healthcare, better employment terms.
- luckylion 7y ago
  Possibly, though it's a cultural thing, so I don't believe you can simply say "we're switching to a Germany model". The US is very individualistic, Germany is more collectivist. Individualistic cultures are more unequal, have issues with high taxes, government regulations and so on. They are much more flexible, can react to changes and move fast. And, as the Facebook motto goes (or went), sometimes they break things. As for the claimed anti-nationalism, I fundamentally dislike it because it's a charade from start to finish. When "I want A" becomes amoral, everything gets wrapped in fifty layers of misdirection and rationalization, and finding compromise gets even harder because nobody can admit to what they actually want. It's a pathological trait in individuals, and I don't believe it's healthy on a society level. I'm not saying "that's how it has to be", rather "that's how it is, so let's not pretend it isn't". At the first sign of trouble, it's becoming evident anyhow, but if our arrangements are built on different assumptions, the damage will be much larger.

jariel 7y ago

I'm a non-German who lived in Germany, the US, and other places. As you say 'it's impolite' to talk about the citizens in a nationalist way, yes, but Germany (and many other nations) are still deeply ethnocentric - it's by default. Almost everything about Germany is 'German' and when almost all economic, political and social concern on a broader level is about 'Germany'. It actually takes some intellectual effort to go beyond and think in terms of 'Europe' or even 'The World'. 'Not being so nationalist' is a social artifact of many nations these days, and I suggest it's just a healthy dose of self-awareness, but it doesn't change the definition of what the community is in the minds of citizens. FYI I should point out that I don't think the US in a 'Germany model' would somehow result in the government building rocket-ships, but it would result in healthcare, better employment terms.

luckylion 7y ago
Possibly, though it's a cultural thing, so I don't believe you can simply say "we're switching to a Germany model". The US is very individualistic, Germany is more collectivist. Individualistic cultures are more unequal, have issues with high taxes, government regulations and so on. They are much more flexible, can react to changes and move fast. And, as the Facebook motto goes (or went), sometimes they break things. As for the claimed anti-nationalism, I fundamentally dislike it because it's a charade from start to finish. When "I want A" becomes amoral, everything gets wrapped in fifty layers of misdirection and rationalization, and finding compromise gets even harder because nobody can admit to what they actually want. It's a pathological trait in individuals, and I don't believe it's healthy on a society level. I'm not saying "that's how it has to be", rather "that's how it is, so let's not pretend it isn't". At the first sign of trouble, it's becoming evident anyhow, but if our arrangements are built on different assumptions, the damage will be much larger.