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Can you open up a command prompt in-game and run arbitrary code to control your character? No? Then it's not the Metaverse. The Palace had that in the 90s (and

Can you open up a command prompt in-game and run arbitrary code to control your character? No? Then it's not the Metaverse. The Palace had that in the 90s (and used a version of Forth). If anything, the Metaverse is a continuously regressing "could-have-been", where content creation has been replaced with buying skins and premade, pre-approved aesthetics.

imode 6y ago
What was The Palace?
- seanalexander 6y ago
  The Palace was (and still has some servers) a 2D chat program. It was sold in retail stores and used a client-server paradigm similar to IRC. It allowed users to copy and paste their own images as avatars, and had a robust enough scripting language (based on Forth) that let you write a script for basically anything in the game. Even the channels were described in the scripting language.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Animats 6y ago
You can do that in Second Life, and do. I wrote a whole non-player character system for Second Life. There's a 64K memory limit on how complex a program you can write, because server resources are limited, but you can have multiple programs and pass messages between them. You can make HTTP requests of external servers, and it's common to call out to servers that keep databases for game state and such. It's not all pre-made skins, either; you can go into Blender or Maya and make whatever you want. (What Fortnite calls "creating skins", from a supply of pre-made parts, Second Life users call "getting dressed".) The downside is that you have to be good enough at 3D artwork creation and the tools for it to make something good. Anybody can create in Minecraft or The Sims. There's a high bar to entry in the systems that allow full creation capability. This is a real problem when attracting new users. Nobody else seems to have both "big, persistent shared world" and "fully general user based creation". Most systems limit one or the other. There's also a big problem with Second Life viewers choking on excessively complex geometry, which brings down the frame rate. Second Life badly needs better automated level of detail generation. (Automated level of detail generation is supposedly a solved problem. The trouble is, the usual algorithms don't work on clothing as separate items. Second Life mesh clothing is not part of the body. It's like real-world clothing, a 3D object with an inside and an outside. Sometimes designers omit the inside, if you can't see it, but usually it's present. Mesh reduction algorithms in common use have a terrible time with thin objects like cloth. If the original has a wrinkle or pleat that affects both sides, which are separate meshes, it's hard to flatten that out during mesh reduction while maintaining the thickness. Nice R&D problem for somebody.)
- HenryBemis 6y ago
  "Ready Player One" came to my mind. I have never been in/played "Second Life" or "Sims". I bought a PS4 in the hope that "No Man's Sky" would become something like that. It had a disappointing start, and I just ran out of patience (and then time) to see what it has become nowadays. I would very much enjoy a "Ready Player One" universe with the entrance/lobby of "Wreck it Ralph" where you can jump around (imagine pacman with a fully equipped "Half Life" character ;) The "buying objects" is the thing that will annoy me, people staying hungry to buy 0s and 1s still doesn't make sense. I understand buying Software, but software is a tool that we use to build something to add value. On a game I don't understand why we need to spend £€¥$100 to "buy" a weapon that does 100 damage instead of 1. (don't tell me demand --> offer, I know what:)
  - kaetemi 6y ago
    Stories like Ready Player One fall into a Yu-gi-oh kind of trap. They're just playing a game in a world where their game is somehow the center of attention. It's more like a filter bubble, where the whole world looks like it conforms to your dreams, and is paying attention to you.
  - seanalexander 6y ago
    Ever notice that the skins are for sale, but making your own is basically impossible?
- greggman3 6y ago
  Surprised no one has mentioned Dreams (PS4). It seems to be easier to create because it's not based around editing polygons (tedious) but rather both shape addition and subtraction (CSG) and it's fast (unlike most CSG) A sample of things created in Dreams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOJOQt6x6dc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOJOQt6x6dc
- seanalexander 6y ago
  That is so cool! Do you still use SL? I got really it during the prim days (before mesh clothing).

imode 6y ago

What was The Palace?

seanalexander 6y ago
The Palace was (and still has some servers) a 2D chat program. It was sold in retail stores and used a client-server paradigm similar to IRC. It allowed users to copy and paste their own images as avatars, and had a robust enough scripting language (based on Forth) that let you write a script for basically anything in the game. Even the channels were described in the scripting language.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Animats 6y ago

You can do that in Second Life, and do. I wrote a whole non-player character system for Second Life. There's a 64K memory limit on how complex a program you can write, because server resources are limited, but you can have multiple programs and pass messages between them. You can make HTTP requests of external servers, and it's common to call out to servers that keep databases for game state and such. It's not all pre-made skins, either; you can go into Blender or Maya and make whatever you want. (What Fortnite calls "creating skins", from a supply of pre-made parts, Second Life users call "getting dressed".) The downside is that you have to be good enough at 3D artwork creation and the tools for it to make something good. Anybody can create in Minecraft or The Sims. There's a high bar to entry in the systems that allow full creation capability. This is a real problem when attracting new users. Nobody else seems to have both "big, persistent shared world" and "fully general user based creation". Most systems limit one or the other. There's also a big problem with Second Life viewers choking on excessively complex geometry, which brings down the frame rate. Second Life badly needs better automated level of detail generation. (Automated level of detail generation is supposedly a solved problem. The trouble is, the usual algorithms don't work on clothing as separate items. Second Life mesh clothing is not part of the body. It's like real-world clothing, a 3D object with an inside and an outside. Sometimes designers omit the inside, if you can't see it, but usually it's present. Mesh reduction algorithms in common use have a terrible time with thin objects like cloth. If the original has a wrinkle or pleat that affects both sides, which are separate meshes, it's hard to flatten that out during mesh reduction while maintaining the thickness. Nice R&D problem for somebody.)

HenryBemis 6y ago
"Ready Player One" came to my mind. I have never been in/played "Second Life" or "Sims". I bought a PS4 in the hope that "No Man's Sky" would become something like that. It had a disappointing start, and I just ran out of patience (and then time) to see what it has become nowadays. I would very much enjoy a "Ready Player One" universe with the entrance/lobby of "Wreck it Ralph" where you can jump around (imagine pacman with a fully equipped "Half Life" character ;) The "buying objects" is the thing that will annoy me, people staying hungry to buy 0s and 1s still doesn't make sense. I understand buying Software, but software is a tool that we use to build something to add value. On a game I don't understand why we need to spend £€¥$100 to "buy" a weapon that does 100 damage instead of 1. (don't tell me demand --> offer, I know what:)
- kaetemi 6y ago
  Stories like Ready Player One fall into a Yu-gi-oh kind of trap. They're just playing a game in a world where their game is somehow the center of attention. It's more like a filter bubble, where the whole world looks like it conforms to your dreams, and is paying attention to you.
- seanalexander 6y ago
  Ever notice that the skins are for sale, but making your own is basically impossible?
greggman3 6y ago
Surprised no one has mentioned Dreams (PS4). It seems to be easier to create because it's not based around editing polygons (tedious) but rather both shape addition and subtraction (CSG) and it's fast (unlike most CSG) A sample of things created in Dreams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOJOQt6x6dc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOJOQt6x6dc
seanalexander 6y ago
That is so cool! Do you still use SL? I got really it during the prim days (before mesh clothing).