5 ms·

Der Spiegel: Are we witnessing the implosion of a superpower?

28 points by moioci 6y ago

4rt 6y ago
Is there a link to the content please? It seems to be heavily paywalled in a way I can usually get past.
- superwayne 6y ago
  http://archive.is/6WHB8 http://archive.is/6WHB8
- mseepgood 6y ago
  The original link doesn't work for me. This is the correct link: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-patient-how-trump-is-fueling-a-corona-disaster-a-024a5cc9-2c07-419a-a351-67837b47f6bb https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-pati... There's no paywall, just a nag window at the bottom that you can close via X.
wildbunny 6y ago
404
hdkrgr 6y ago
Working Link: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-patient-how-trump-is-fueling-a-corona-disaster-a-024a5cc9-2c07-419a-a351-67837b47f6bb https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-pati...
InaneBob 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel#2018_fabrication_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel#2018_fabrication_s... Literally Lügenpresse.
- grey-area 6y ago
  Please don't use Nazi slogans like this.
  - InaneBob 6y ago
    How can a normal german word be a nazi slogan?
    - mseepgood 6y ago
      Because it was used as a Nazi slogan.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      Because the Nazis co-opted and took over the meaning of the word. If you're interested, look at the Wikipedia article. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCgenpresse#Verwendung_im_Kontext_des_Nationalsozialismus https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCgenpresse#Verwendung_im...
    - grey-area 6y ago
      https://www.economist.com/europe/2016/11/24/americas-alt-right-learns-to-speak-nazi-lugenpresse https://www.economist.com/europe/2016/11/24/americas-alt-rig...
    - crtc 6y ago
      How can "Rassenschande" be a Nazi slogan? How can "Herrenvolk" be a Nazi slogan?
  - s9w 6y ago
    They are Lügenpresse. Documented over and over again.
  - An1ms 6y ago
    Godwin's law.
matsdb 6y ago
Outline.com is bypassing the paywall: https://outline.com/gvLNek https://outline.com/gvLNek
killIdeas 6y ago
Between the very serious claims that deficits don't matter and free money going around, I think we are seeing the nation change. There will be a working class, and a leach class. It will forever define politics in the United States. What starts as good intentions will be what causes the end. Our small business couldn't really afford to pay 15$/hr for a secretary, now with free money as a competitor, I imagine the cost of unskilled labor will only go up.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > There will be a working class, and a leach class. It will forever define politics in the United States. That's already the status quo. The consequences of coronavirus will only solidify this... just look at Amazon, they're taking over business from a lot of quarantine-closed small stores, no matter if food or non-food. Many people will stick with Amazon, Bezos gets all the money, and entire 'hoods will collapse once the lockdowns get lifted. The biggest companies have enough cash, access to cash or fire their employees to ride out the lockdowns, the small businesses will go belly up no matter how much "stimulus money" gets injected. I rather suspect that there will be a third class, or to be more precise, it will become evident to everyone that this class exists: destitute people in yet-unknown masses. Dozens of millions of people in the US have claimed unemployment benefits. Give them a month or two to run out of savings and debt options, and they'll be unable to make rent, get evicted, you get the rest.
Hermel 6y ago
This is a link that works for me: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-patient-how-trump-is-fueling-a-corona-disaster-a-024a5cc9-2c07-419a-a351-67837b47f6bb https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-pati... You should note that “Der Spiegel” is left-leaning and has probably never lost a single good word on Trump ever. Without having read the article, I expect this to be based more on wishful thinking by doomsayers than on real concerns.
benjohnson 6y ago
TLDR: German author now understand that Americans have a system that intentionally thwarts top-down control, and that, even so people, can still learn to adapt and do the right thing even in a backdrop of insecurity. Bonus Antics: German author uses "(sic)" in photo caption to imply that black nurses from Brooklyn are not speaking proper English.
- Noumenon72 6y ago
  The caption is a Trump quote from the paragraph above, intended to be ironically juxtaposed with the nurses' actual problems.
  - benjohnson 6y ago
    Good catch. Even weirder in my opinion putting it next to nurses recuperating from their work. Der Spiegel didn't even get the date right - it was January 24th when Trump said “We have very little problem [sic] in this country at this moment—five [confirmed cases]. And those people are all recuperating successfully.” according to the sources I can find.
    - Youden 6y ago
      I don't know what sources you're looking at, all the ones I could find say the 30th: - White House press release: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-usmca-celebration-american-workers-warren-mi/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres... - Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-china-usa-trump/trump-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-very-well-under-control-idUSKBN1ZT334 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-china-usa-trump/tr... - Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/30/trump-close-cooperation-china-coronavirus-109701 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/30/trump-close-coopera... - Vox: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21225010/trump-who-attacks-coronavirus-warnings https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21225010/trump-who-attacks-cor... - ABC News: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/wary-irking-china-trump-offers-rosy-virus-threat-68632175 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/wary-irking-china-tr... - Al Jazeera America: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/cloneofcloneofcloneofchina-battles-coronavirus-o-200129233906291.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/cloneofcloneofcloneof... This wasn't difficult, I just searched "Trump coronavirus very little problem" in Google News to get a vague idea, then limited it by date to get more specific results. I couldn't find any evidence whatsoever for it happening on the 24th. To publish it on the 24th would require either time travel or some insight into planned speeches. It kinda feels like you're trying to discredit Der Spiegel for some reason.
RickJWagner 6y ago
American citizen here. I really think this is over the top. The US economy was doing very well prior to the outbreak, the US doesn't seem to be doing much worse than other countries. (Actually, the US seems to have a little better stats, judging by death-per-million.) Why is Der Spiegel posting such a one-sided story? Are they hoping in some way to influence American politics? (Legitimate question.) If so, what is the reason?
- xcavier 6y ago
  Not sure where you get your news from, but clearly you need to read more widely about what is actually happening on the ground in the US...
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    I am sure he is just referring to Worldometer. Is there much beyond that?
- timbit42 6y ago
  Cases per million or deaths per million don't make sense. The virus seeds from people entering the country and spreads exponentially from those seeds. The speed of the spread depends on the population density of the area where the seeds start but the population of the entire country has little to no bearing on that.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Why? Der Spiegel is selling headlines to try to make money, that's why.

28 points by moioci 6y ago

4rt 6y ago

Is there a link to the content please? It seems to be heavily paywalled in a way I can usually get past.

superwayne 6y ago
http://archive.is/6WHB8 http://archive.is/6WHB8
mseepgood 6y ago
The original link doesn't work for me. This is the correct link: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-patient-how-trump-is-fueling-a-corona-disaster-a-024a5cc9-2c07-419a-a351-67837b47f6bb https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-pati... There's no paywall, just a nag window at the bottom that you can close via X.

wildbunny 6y ago

404

hdkrgr 6y ago

Working Link: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-patient-how-trump-is-fueling-a-corona-disaster-a-024a5cc9-2c07-419a-a351-67837b47f6bb https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-pati...

InaneBob 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel#2018_fabrication_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel#2018_fabrication_s... Literally Lügenpresse.

grey-area 6y ago
Please don't use Nazi slogans like this.
- InaneBob 6y ago
  How can a normal german word be a nazi slogan?
  - mseepgood 6y ago
    Because it was used as a Nazi slogan.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Because the Nazis co-opted and took over the meaning of the word. If you're interested, look at the Wikipedia article. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCgenpresse#Verwendung_im_Kontext_des_Nationalsozialismus https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCgenpresse#Verwendung_im...
  - grey-area 6y ago
    https://www.economist.com/europe/2016/11/24/americas-alt-right-learns-to-speak-nazi-lugenpresse https://www.economist.com/europe/2016/11/24/americas-alt-rig...
  - crtc 6y ago
    How can "Rassenschande" be a Nazi slogan? How can "Herrenvolk" be a Nazi slogan?
- s9w 6y ago
  They are Lügenpresse. Documented over and over again.
- An1ms 6y ago
  Godwin's law.

matsdb 6y ago

Outline.com is bypassing the paywall: https://outline.com/gvLNek https://outline.com/gvLNek

killIdeas 6y ago

Between the very serious claims that deficits don't matter and free money going around, I think we are seeing the nation change. There will be a working class, and a leach class. It will forever define politics in the United States. What starts as good intentions will be what causes the end. Our small business couldn't really afford to pay 15$/hr for a secretary, now with free money as a competitor, I imagine the cost of unskilled labor will only go up.

mschuster91 6y ago
> There will be a working class, and a leach class. It will forever define politics in the United States. That's already the status quo. The consequences of coronavirus will only solidify this... just look at Amazon, they're taking over business from a lot of quarantine-closed small stores, no matter if food or non-food. Many people will stick with Amazon, Bezos gets all the money, and entire 'hoods will collapse once the lockdowns get lifted. The biggest companies have enough cash, access to cash or fire their employees to ride out the lockdowns, the small businesses will go belly up no matter how much "stimulus money" gets injected. I rather suspect that there will be a third class, or to be more precise, it will become evident to everyone that this class exists: destitute people in yet-unknown masses. Dozens of millions of people in the US have claimed unemployment benefits. Give them a month or two to run out of savings and debt options, and they'll be unable to make rent, get evicted, you get the rest.

Hermel 6y ago

This is a link that works for me: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-patient-how-trump-is-fueling-a-corona-disaster-a-024a5cc9-2c07-419a-a351-67837b47f6bb https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-american-pati... You should note that “Der Spiegel” is left-leaning and has probably never lost a single good word on Trump ever. Without having read the article, I expect this to be based more on wishful thinking by doomsayers than on real concerns.

benjohnson 6y ago

TLDR: German author now understand that Americans have a system that intentionally thwarts top-down control, and that, even so people, can still learn to adapt and do the right thing even in a backdrop of insecurity. Bonus Antics: German author uses "(sic)" in photo caption to imply that black nurses from Brooklyn are not speaking proper English.

Noumenon72 6y ago
The caption is a Trump quote from the paragraph above, intended to be ironically juxtaposed with the nurses' actual problems.
- benjohnson 6y ago
  Good catch. Even weirder in my opinion putting it next to nurses recuperating from their work. Der Spiegel didn't even get the date right - it was January 24th when Trump said “We have very little problem [sic] in this country at this moment—five [confirmed cases]. And those people are all recuperating successfully.” according to the sources I can find.
  - Youden 6y ago
    I don't know what sources you're looking at, all the ones I could find say the 30th: - White House press release: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-usmca-celebration-american-workers-warren-mi/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-pres... - Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-china-usa-trump/trump-says-coronavirus-outbreak-is-very-well-under-control-idUSKBN1ZT334 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-china-usa-trump/tr... - Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/30/trump-close-cooperation-china-coronavirus-109701 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/30/trump-close-coopera... - Vox: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21225010/trump-who-attacks-coronavirus-warnings https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21225010/trump-who-attacks-cor... - ABC News: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/wary-irking-china-trump-offers-rosy-virus-threat-68632175 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/wary-irking-china-tr... - Al Jazeera America: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/cloneofcloneofcloneofchina-battles-coronavirus-o-200129233906291.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/cloneofcloneofcloneof... This wasn't difficult, I just searched "Trump coronavirus very little problem" in Google News to get a vague idea, then limited it by date to get more specific results. I couldn't find any evidence whatsoever for it happening on the 24th. To publish it on the 24th would require either time travel or some insight into planned speeches. It kinda feels like you're trying to discredit Der Spiegel for some reason.

RickJWagner 6y ago

American citizen here. I really think this is over the top. The US economy was doing very well prior to the outbreak, the US doesn't seem to be doing much worse than other countries. (Actually, the US seems to have a little better stats, judging by death-per-million.) Why is Der Spiegel posting such a one-sided story? Are they hoping in some way to influence American politics? (Legitimate question.) If so, what is the reason?

xcavier 6y ago
Not sure where you get your news from, but clearly you need to read more widely about what is actually happening on the ground in the US...
- lostmsu 6y ago
  I am sure he is just referring to Worldometer. Is there much beyond that?
timbit42 6y ago
Cases per million or deaths per million don't make sense. The virus seeds from people entering the country and spreads exponentially from those seeds. The speed of the spread depends on the population density of the area where the seeds start but the population of the entire country has little to no bearing on that.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Why? Der Spiegel is selling headlines to try to make money, that's why.