3 ms·

> Dueling fraternities are the reactionary minority of a conservative minority. As someone that knows quite a few people from dueling fraternities (recent grad

> Dueling fraternities are the reactionary minority of a conservative minority. As someone that knows quite a few people from dueling fraternities (recent graduates), I don't think that's a fair generalization (even though that's the common trope). There has been a lot of organizational changes in the last two decades around one of the biggest associations for dueling fraternities (DB), where a lot of fraternities that didn't align with their reactionary views left and founded associations of their own. As a result of that, DB is now half of its initial size. And there are probably also a few that didn't leave where the younger generation has more progressive views, but they weren't able to convince the old inactive members (which are the bulk) to leave. So yeah, they are generally of a conservative political mindset, but I would say that the strong political tendencies portrayed in media and hearsay only apply to maybe ~1/3 or less of dueling fraternities.

cycomanic 7y ago
I assume by DB you mean the Deutsche Burschenschaft, which still includes the majority of fraternities not just the ones that duel. You are correct that many left, but that was not because the DB moved to the right it was more that generally society became more and more critical. The same fraternities did not have any issues for many years that several of the prominent members fraternities of DB had Neonazis in key roles. To give a taste of the views held by many fraternities. Most (90%) do not allow women members, many do not allow members from migrant backgrounds (and the ones that changed only did so in the last 10 years or so). When Germany still had military service (technically it's just "paused"), most fraternities did not allow members who had done "Zivildienst" which is the substitute where you work in hospitals, retirement homes...
- hobofan 7y ago
  My point is that what you call "the same fraternities" are not the same fraternities anymore. Younger, more progressive (compared to the status quo of the fraternities) members join, and older less progressive members leave (die). I personally don't share the values of fraternities, and would never join one, but I've also come to see that they can be a good station for young adolescents leaving their parents homes for the first time, if done right, and would also love to see them open up to more diverse groups of people. In the last years, community structures for teenagers/adolescents (e.g. sport clubs, scouts) are becoming less and less popular, and I'd hate for that trend to continue, as I personally wouldn't be the same without them, had they not existed. I'd rather see them reform than be shunned out of existence.

cycomanic 7y ago

I assume by DB you mean the Deutsche Burschenschaft, which still includes the majority of fraternities not just the ones that duel. You are correct that many left, but that was not because the DB moved to the right it was more that generally society became more and more critical. The same fraternities did not have any issues for many years that several of the prominent members fraternities of DB had Neonazis in key roles. To give a taste of the views held by many fraternities. Most (90%) do not allow women members, many do not allow members from migrant backgrounds (and the ones that changed only did so in the last 10 years or so). When Germany still had military service (technically it's just "paused"), most fraternities did not allow members who had done "Zivildienst" which is the substitute where you work in hospitals, retirement homes...

hobofan 7y ago
My point is that what you call "the same fraternities" are not the same fraternities anymore. Younger, more progressive (compared to the status quo of the fraternities) members join, and older less progressive members leave (die). I personally don't share the values of fraternities, and would never join one, but I've also come to see that they can be a good station for young adolescents leaving their parents homes for the first time, if done right, and would also love to see them open up to more diverse groups of people. In the last years, community structures for teenagers/adolescents (e.g. sport clubs, scouts) are becoming less and less popular, and I'd hate for that trend to continue, as I personally wouldn't be the same without them, had they not existed. I'd rather see them reform than be shunned out of existence.