4 ms·

> maybe 1% Honest question, not snide in any way: what would be the right percentage? Surely not 100%? Special Ed folks, folks on the left end of the bell cu

> maybe 1% Honest question, not snide in any way: what would be the right percentage? Surely not 100%? Special Ed folks, folks on the left end of the bell curve for instance, need intensive one-on-ones. But folks on the other end of the bell would not need that same level of support? (I'm not saying 1% is OK. And I understand that you pulled that number out of the air.)

barry-cotter 7y ago
Acceleration as of right instead of enrichment should be verging on free, requiring almost nothing in new expenditure. I’d be pretty happy with that alone to be honest. An early college programme like Bard College at Simon’s Rock in every metro area with over 100,000 people with provision for boarding for those outside commuting distance wouldn’t get you past 2% of education expenditure. That’s under 10% of what’s spent on special education. That would make me ecstatic.
- Viliam1234 7y ago
  It's not about how much money, but rather how to spend it. Well, okay, to spend money some way you first need it, but the amount could be quite small. Most of the knowledge is already available online for free. (There are still some gaps that would be nice to fill, for example lessons for small kids whose first language is not English.) The problem is rather navigating the abundance of information. First, to distinguish genuine knowledge from crackpottery. Like, most of us probably know that 99% of videos on YouTube containing "quantum" in their titles are pure nonsense. But a smart 13 years old kid doesn't know that yet, and can waste a lot of time gaining negative knowledge (misconceptions that later require time and work to unlearn). We know that in case of doubt, the materials published by MIT are most likely solid. For that kid, even this is not necessarily obvious; it would be better to tell them explicitly. Second, lessons have prerequisites. I can find an interesting lesson, only to realize that I actually can't follow it, because it uses symbols and concepts I don't understand, and I don't even know how that missing part of knowledge is called. It would be great to have some guidance of form "you can learn X by watching Y, but first you need to understand M and N which you can learn by watching P and Q, etc.". A tech-tree of knowledge, kind of. For these two things, you don't actually need a school system. A website could be enough: a page for each topic, internal links to prerequisite topics, external links for educational resources checked for quality. You would need some budget for this, but I assume that for costs similar to running one school, you could serve the entire nation. -- And it wouldn't be only for the smart kids; the average kids could use it, too. Everyone could progress at their own speed. Actually, it would be even better if all the kids would use it, because then you wouldn't have to look specifically for the smart kids and advertise it to them, they would simply learn about it from kids around them. Now you can add extra services, like a silent place to go study if you don't have such place at home, a computer with an internet connection is you don't have one at home. Places to meet people studying the same topic. Etc. This all would be nice to have. I am just saying that the minimum solution that could help maybe 80% of gifted kids could actually be made very cheaply.
  - GlennS 7y ago
    Aren't you basically describing Khan Academy? It has good education material - including exercises - that you go through at your own pace, and is organised as a tree of learning. Last time I looked it didn't go into university level subjects though.
    - Viliam1234 7y ago
      Khan Academy is a great project. At least as a general idea; there may be some small technical details (there is some criticism on Wikipedia that seems reasonable, but maybe it was already addressed). I only tried it shortly, so I am not sure how complete it is beyond math. Now if I may dream, I imagine something like Khan Academy, but: - containing all lessons from all subjects of elementary and high schools (and optionally some university lessons); - somehow certified by the state, similarly how textbooks are certified, so you would have some official statement saying "this is at least as good and as complete as public schools" (and if something specific is missing or not up to standards, the problematic topics would be clearly listed); - with the consequence that if you complete Khan Academy (and take extra courses/exams in the problematic topics), you would get a certificate equivalent to completing the elementary or high school (perhaps after taking an exam to check that it wasn't e.g. your parents doing the tests for you), without having to attend a school, and regardless of your age (so a gifted kid could have high school completed as 10 years old); - maybe with an option that teachers could upload their own versions of existing lessons or new lessons, and the users would by default use the standard Khan Academy videos, but could choose the optional ones, and based on popularity and administrator decision, the new videos could become the default ones; this is how the content could continuously improve and new topics (e.g. the university lessons) get added; also, repetition is the mother of learning, but instead of listening to the same video again, you could now listen to an alternative version of the lesson; - with some way to create an individualized study plan, so you could specify e.g. "I want to be a lawyer, but I also want to make computer games", and the lessons that lead you there would be highlighted. Also, I'd like to see a competitor or two, of comparable quality.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> what would be the right percentage? Surely not 100%? You say that like 100% is some kind of meaningful threshold. It should be a lot more than 100%, for the same reason that spending on growing crops in China is more than 100% of spending on growing crops in Antarctica, or spending on basketball coaching for men who are six feet tall is more than 100% of spending on basketball coaching for men who are four feet tall.
david_w 7y ago
How about the future value of dollar spent today? What the best and brightest do is advance science, including the science which later alleviates the issues plaguing the the bottom 1%. This is the whole idea of universal education in the first place. It pays for itself in the long run. The top 1% pay super-extra dividends to everyone.

barry-cotter 7y ago

Acceleration as of right instead of enrichment should be verging on free, requiring almost nothing in new expenditure. I’d be pretty happy with that alone to be honest. An early college programme like Bard College at Simon’s Rock in every metro area with over 100,000 people with provision for boarding for those outside commuting distance wouldn’t get you past 2% of education expenditure. That’s under 10% of what’s spent on special education. That would make me ecstatic.

Viliam1234 7y ago
It's not about how much money, but rather how to spend it. Well, okay, to spend money some way you first need it, but the amount could be quite small. Most of the knowledge is already available online for free. (There are still some gaps that would be nice to fill, for example lessons for small kids whose first language is not English.) The problem is rather navigating the abundance of information. First, to distinguish genuine knowledge from crackpottery. Like, most of us probably know that 99% of videos on YouTube containing "quantum" in their titles are pure nonsense. But a smart 13 years old kid doesn't know that yet, and can waste a lot of time gaining negative knowledge (misconceptions that later require time and work to unlearn). We know that in case of doubt, the materials published by MIT are most likely solid. For that kid, even this is not necessarily obvious; it would be better to tell them explicitly. Second, lessons have prerequisites. I can find an interesting lesson, only to realize that I actually can't follow it, because it uses symbols and concepts I don't understand, and I don't even know how that missing part of knowledge is called. It would be great to have some guidance of form "you can learn X by watching Y, but first you need to understand M and N which you can learn by watching P and Q, etc.". A tech-tree of knowledge, kind of. For these two things, you don't actually need a school system. A website could be enough: a page for each topic, internal links to prerequisite topics, external links for educational resources checked for quality. You would need some budget for this, but I assume that for costs similar to running one school, you could serve the entire nation. -- And it wouldn't be only for the smart kids; the average kids could use it, too. Everyone could progress at their own speed. Actually, it would be even better if all the kids would use it, because then you wouldn't have to look specifically for the smart kids and advertise it to them, they would simply learn about it from kids around them. Now you can add extra services, like a silent place to go study if you don't have such place at home, a computer with an internet connection is you don't have one at home. Places to meet people studying the same topic. Etc. This all would be nice to have. I am just saying that the minimum solution that could help maybe 80% of gifted kids could actually be made very cheaply.
- GlennS 7y ago
  Aren't you basically describing Khan Academy? It has good education material - including exercises - that you go through at your own pace, and is organised as a tree of learning. Last time I looked it didn't go into university level subjects though.
  - Viliam1234 7y ago
    Khan Academy is a great project. At least as a general idea; there may be some small technical details (there is some criticism on Wikipedia that seems reasonable, but maybe it was already addressed). I only tried it shortly, so I am not sure how complete it is beyond math. Now if I may dream, I imagine something like Khan Academy, but: - containing all lessons from all subjects of elementary and high schools (and optionally some university lessons); - somehow certified by the state, similarly how textbooks are certified, so you would have some official statement saying "this is at least as good and as complete as public schools" (and if something specific is missing or not up to standards, the problematic topics would be clearly listed); - with the consequence that if you complete Khan Academy (and take extra courses/exams in the problematic topics), you would get a certificate equivalent to completing the elementary or high school (perhaps after taking an exam to check that it wasn't e.g. your parents doing the tests for you), without having to attend a school, and regardless of your age (so a gifted kid could have high school completed as 10 years old); - maybe with an option that teachers could upload their own versions of existing lessons or new lessons, and the users would by default use the standard Khan Academy videos, but could choose the optional ones, and based on popularity and administrator decision, the new videos could become the default ones; this is how the content could continuously improve and new topics (e.g. the university lessons) get added; also, repetition is the mother of learning, but instead of listening to the same video again, you could now listen to an alternative version of the lesson; - with some way to create an individualized study plan, so you could specify e.g. "I want to be a lawyer, but I also want to make computer games", and the lessons that lead you there would be highlighted. Also, I'd like to see a competitor or two, of comparable quality.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> what would be the right percentage? Surely not 100%? You say that like 100% is some kind of meaningful threshold. It should be a lot more than 100%, for the same reason that spending on growing crops in China is more than 100% of spending on growing crops in Antarctica, or spending on basketball coaching for men who are six feet tall is more than 100% of spending on basketball coaching for men who are four feet tall.

david_w 7y ago

How about the future value of dollar spent today? What the best and brightest do is advance science, including the science which later alleviates the issues plaguing the the bottom 1%. This is the whole idea of universal education in the first place. It pays for itself in the long run. The top 1% pay super-extra dividends to everyone.