5 ms·

My point is that there's been an explosion in opportunities that kids can use that go around what schools provide. Even when I was in high school, you could get

by knzhou 7y ago

My point is that there's been an explosion in opportunities that kids can use that go around what schools provide. Even when I was in high school, you could get most of an undergraduate education from MIT OpenCourseWare for free, and the situation is even better now. (You couldn't get a credential out of it... but who cares, when either way you'll have the knowledge?) Though I'm upset about the political drama over NYC magnet schools, it's important to note that their outcomes aren't due to magic teachers or better equipment. The kids are making things happen on their own! The core benefit these schools provide is mostly that they allow the kids to meet each other.

sologoub 7y ago
You have to know that MIT OpenCourseWare exists. Many people do, but I suspect an even larger number do not. Gifted kids can come from all backgrounds. When parent involvement is there and the parents know how the system works and where to find resources, it’s an ocean of opportunity out there. When parents don’t know the system (immigrants for example), don’t have the luxury of a lot of involvement (work multiple jobs), the asymmetric knowledge/access are now an issue. Public education is supposed to level that field somewhat and what many are pointing out is a gap through which many gifted students fall through. Then you get behavioral and social problems, as called out in the research.
- ramraj07 7y ago
  There might be some _very_ unlucky kids who can't even access the internet, but once you can get to Wikipedia and youtube I'm sure a very smart kid can figure out where to find what they want to learn. Now, if they don't get the time to immerse themselves because their household demands their attention on more fundamental survival needs, well that should be addressed whether the kid is smart or not.
  - zekrioca 7y ago
    Social and familiar needs are linked with someone being smart or not. You can’t have one without the other, they are interdependent. You can’t just count on someone — specially an young one — sneaking in to get access to Wikipedia and find the extra resources they need. You minimize negative impacts on the social environment for it to flourish.
  - benibela 7y ago
    You can learn so much on the internet But I wonder if it really helps. I did not have internet or tv as kid and I have learned a lot from books. Now I have internet, and I spend far more time on social media and watching shows than I spend on learning things
    - theamk 7y ago
      Isn’t this general kids vs adult things? I think most (but not all) people learn less and less as they get older. For practical, “try at home” things, internet is just making everything so much better. You can read books a lot, but if you want to learn how to make a laser from scratch (for example), no book will be nearly as good as a bunch of blog posts and forum to connect to others.
    - Hoasi 7y ago
      > I did not have internet or tv as kid and I have learned a lot from books. Growing up in a TV-free household as a kid was and still is an advantage to develop learning skills, independence, and imagination. > Now I have internet, and I spend far more time on social media and watching shows than I spend on learning things That may be, but you have the choice. The main difference is that you can find way more information than in books, even if you lived in a library. The main problem on top of the continuous distraction is curation.
  - sologoub 7y ago
    In order to look for something, you generally need to know it exists. When you live in the given social circle, you tend to develop a point of view on what’s doable/achievable that’s in line with that circle. Some people are not constrained by this and have this almost built-in dream. Others have to learn to dream big. This even happens in US all the time - kids emulate their parents, neighbors, etc. Even the access is there, but these kids don’t know it and therefore can’t make use of this access.
- afpx 7y ago
  To support your point, I grew up in a poor urban area, and over 30% of the gifted kids didn’t graduate. Another 30% developed addiction or had teen pregnancies. Being poor is much more disadvantaged than being smart is advantageous. The problem isn’t access.
  - myself248 7y ago
    Being smart means you're bored a lot. Being bored means you find other things to occupy your time. Being poor means you have fewer good options, and are more likely to settle on the bad ones. I think being smart and being poor multiply each other's effects. Most of the troublemakers were really smart, and got into shit because they had nothing better to do. Outsmarting the teachers was fun, making jokes meant you had to know exactly what was going on in order to skewer it, sneaking around was a thrill and a show of skill. Anecdotally, one of the most brilliant kids I went to school with was also a teen mom, because yeah, gotta keep busy somehow. And that was in one of the most affluent and highest-rated districts in the state if not the country. I can only imagine it's much worse where there are fewer resources.
travisoneill1 7y ago
How are you supposed to go around what schools provide and do MIT courses when you are required to sit in school all day and then waste even more time on the pointless busy work they make you do at home?
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  I totally half arsed school for this reason. There's much more fun (and learned skill) in learning stuff how you want. Personally, I took the route of combining all my subjects (maths, physics, CS) and took the route of building a couple basic physics sims. Best education of my life.
- myself248 7y ago
  I feel so lucky that my elementary school, in the 80s, had a special-education coordinator who recognized gifted and talented as part of her job, co-equal with developmentally disabled. Not all special needs are remedial, after all. As a result, my parents had an ally who knew the workings of the system, had resources and connections, and would go to bat for me/us when the rest of the administration had their heads in the sand. The end result was that I had some time each day to work on my own projects, and my teachers were required to make accommodations. I ended up leaving the school anyway because of one perniciously evil teacher and I'm still in therapy for the sequelae, but there were definitely some bright spots. I can't say everyone aims 'em right, but there are definitely hammers to swing against the traditional structure and the disservice it does to gifted and talented students. In recent years, I understand that the guidelines around individual accommodation plans have only strengthened. I'd imagine there must be folks out there equally adept at making them work. Some of them might just need a reminder that their job includes this function.
- cosmodisk 7y ago
  Here's what they used to do at my school( state school, Lithuania,90s): the more gifted ones had a few options: they could skip a year(i.e. from 8th to 10th grade), not follow the curriculum the rest of the class did and simply do something more advanced during that time. I'm not gifted but was probably smart enough to find school easy,but couldn't be asked to do too much,so teachers usually used to leave me alone.

by knzhou 7y ago

sologoub 7y ago

You have to know that MIT OpenCourseWare exists. Many people do, but I suspect an even larger number do not. Gifted kids can come from all backgrounds. When parent involvement is there and the parents know how the system works and where to find resources, it’s an ocean of opportunity out there. When parents don’t know the system (immigrants for example), don’t have the luxury of a lot of involvement (work multiple jobs), the asymmetric knowledge/access are now an issue. Public education is supposed to level that field somewhat and what many are pointing out is a gap through which many gifted students fall through. Then you get behavioral and social problems, as called out in the research.

ramraj07 7y ago
There might be some _very_ unlucky kids who can't even access the internet, but once you can get to Wikipedia and youtube I'm sure a very smart kid can figure out where to find what they want to learn. Now, if they don't get the time to immerse themselves because their household demands their attention on more fundamental survival needs, well that should be addressed whether the kid is smart or not.
- zekrioca 7y ago
  Social and familiar needs are linked with someone being smart or not. You can’t have one without the other, they are interdependent. You can’t just count on someone — specially an young one — sneaking in to get access to Wikipedia and find the extra resources they need. You minimize negative impacts on the social environment for it to flourish.
- benibela 7y ago
  You can learn so much on the internet But I wonder if it really helps. I did not have internet or tv as kid and I have learned a lot from books. Now I have internet, and I spend far more time on social media and watching shows than I spend on learning things
  - theamk 7y ago
    Isn’t this general kids vs adult things? I think most (but not all) people learn less and less as they get older. For practical, “try at home” things, internet is just making everything so much better. You can read books a lot, but if you want to learn how to make a laser from scratch (for example), no book will be nearly as good as a bunch of blog posts and forum to connect to others.
  - Hoasi 7y ago
    > I did not have internet or tv as kid and I have learned a lot from books. Growing up in a TV-free household as a kid was and still is an advantage to develop learning skills, independence, and imagination. > Now I have internet, and I spend far more time on social media and watching shows than I spend on learning things That may be, but you have the choice. The main difference is that you can find way more information than in books, even if you lived in a library. The main problem on top of the continuous distraction is curation.
- sologoub 7y ago
  In order to look for something, you generally need to know it exists. When you live in the given social circle, you tend to develop a point of view on what’s doable/achievable that’s in line with that circle. Some people are not constrained by this and have this almost built-in dream. Others have to learn to dream big. This even happens in US all the time - kids emulate their parents, neighbors, etc. Even the access is there, but these kids don’t know it and therefore can’t make use of this access.
afpx 7y ago
To support your point, I grew up in a poor urban area, and over 30% of the gifted kids didn’t graduate. Another 30% developed addiction or had teen pregnancies. Being poor is much more disadvantaged than being smart is advantageous. The problem isn’t access.
- myself248 7y ago
  Being smart means you're bored a lot. Being bored means you find other things to occupy your time. Being poor means you have fewer good options, and are more likely to settle on the bad ones. I think being smart and being poor multiply each other's effects. Most of the troublemakers were really smart, and got into shit because they had nothing better to do. Outsmarting the teachers was fun, making jokes meant you had to know exactly what was going on in order to skewer it, sneaking around was a thrill and a show of skill. Anecdotally, one of the most brilliant kids I went to school with was also a teen mom, because yeah, gotta keep busy somehow. And that was in one of the most affluent and highest-rated districts in the state if not the country. I can only imagine it's much worse where there are fewer resources.

travisoneill1 7y ago

How are you supposed to go around what schools provide and do MIT courses when you are required to sit in school all day and then waste even more time on the pointless busy work they make you do at home?

cameronbrown 7y ago
I totally half arsed school for this reason. There's much more fun (and learned skill) in learning stuff how you want. Personally, I took the route of combining all my subjects (maths, physics, CS) and took the route of building a couple basic physics sims. Best education of my life.
myself248 7y ago
I feel so lucky that my elementary school, in the 80s, had a special-education coordinator who recognized gifted and talented as part of her job, co-equal with developmentally disabled. Not all special needs are remedial, after all. As a result, my parents had an ally who knew the workings of the system, had resources and connections, and would go to bat for me/us when the rest of the administration had their heads in the sand. The end result was that I had some time each day to work on my own projects, and my teachers were required to make accommodations. I ended up leaving the school anyway because of one perniciously evil teacher and I'm still in therapy for the sequelae, but there were definitely some bright spots. I can't say everyone aims 'em right, but there are definitely hammers to swing against the traditional structure and the disservice it does to gifted and talented students. In recent years, I understand that the guidelines around individual accommodation plans have only strengthened. I'd imagine there must be folks out there equally adept at making them work. Some of them might just need a reminder that their job includes this function.
cosmodisk 7y ago
Here's what they used to do at my school( state school, Lithuania,90s): the more gifted ones had a few options: they could skip a year(i.e. from 8th to 10th grade), not follow the curriculum the rest of the class did and simply do something more advanced during that time. I'm not gifted but was probably smart enough to find school easy,but couldn't be asked to do too much,so teachers usually used to leave me alone.