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> Once she used this term, it became easier for parents to accept that their children were doing fine in “normal” class, which was quite good anyways because of
by barry-cotter 7y ago
> Once she used this term, it became easier for parents to accept that their children were doing fine in “normal” class, which was quite good anyways because of the average aptitude of the students.
Your child could be doing work three grades ahead, learning things that would challenge them and help them grow intellectually. Instead we’ll keep them here with the normal children where at best they’ll learn to shut up and not bother the teacher.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoThe GP is talking about competitive parents whose kids aren't genuinely exceptionally gifted. The parents are just looking for bragging rights and/or another edge.
- barry-cotter 7y agoKeeping children who’re perfectly capable of doing sixth grade work doing fifth grade work isn’t as bad but it’s still a waste off their time and a lesson in the actual priorities of the school system, which certainly don’t have learning among the top five.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoSome parents don't really have the best interests of their children at heart. "Hot housing" children does not make for better future outcomes. It just deprives children of their childhood.
- barry-cotter 7y ago> "Hot housing" children does not make for better future outcomes. I would welcome any research to that effect if you have it to hand. I am not an expert but if you search gwern.net for “gifted education”, “acceleration” “SMPY” or “Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth” you’ll find many papers on this general topic. There’s nothing there showing negative effects and quite a bit that’s positive.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoIt's a term coined by researchers and I believe it was used in the name of a book at some point. I can't readily find the book, but I found this article: https://www.verywellfamily.com/hothouse-children-1449187 https://www.verywellfamily.com/hothouse-children-1449187 I was briefly Director of Community Life for The TAG Project and was a low level presenter at, I believe, a Beyond IQ conference one year a long time ago when my kids were still kids. I'm fairly familiar with the research. Yes, holding back kids that are actually gifted is harmful to them. So is putting a child on a treadmill to satisfy the ego of the neurotic parents.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- woofie11 7y agoNo. It isn't fundamentally harmful to children. It depends on how it's done. One of the major differences between effective programs and harmful ones are the attitudes of the children in those programs. Both the hothouse parents described, and programs for kids "behind standards" push really hard with rote learning, high-pressure, and often punishment. On the other hand, effective programs, both for kids ahead, behind, and at grade-level have richer activities which build love-of-learning. As a footnote, I looked at the web site you linked to. It cites a bunch of widely discredited Piagetan nonsense.
- jstewartmobile 7y agoMost schools are massive daycare centers. Giving gifted kids their own time back—to pursue their own interests—would be more effective and less expensive than “three grades ahead.” Grinding out paperwork and watching the clock in the 8th grade isn’t any more rewarding than it is in the 5th. Smart kids just need a push in the right direction.
- greggman3 7y agoI'm sure I'm out of touch being old but my school was just fine AFAIK. I can still remember in general, what I learned in every class from 1st grade to 12th grade. I can't remember a single class that didn't teach me useful stuff. Going backward 12 grade, AP calculus, english lit, programming (mostly self study), auto mechanics (elective), physics. 11th grade applied math, english lit, programming, American history, 9th grade geometry and proofs, yearbook (which taught me how big a project is, how to layout a book, how many students coast, there were basically 3 of us that did 85% of the work), world history, student store (learned what it's like to have co-workers and a job and responsibilities like showing up to school 45 mins early to run the store in the morning), I'm not going to fill it all the way back to kindergarten but is school different now? I didn't grind out paperwork in 8th grade. I took German, Chemistry, Writing/English, Geography, Typing (yea that was a thing), Algebra
- barry-cotter 7y ago> I can still remember in general, what I learned in every class from 1st grade to 12th grade. I can't remember a single class that didn't teach me useful stuff. You are very, very far out of the ordinary. Twenty percent of Americans can’t name any of the branches of government. Only 46% know each state has two Senators. About 40% of Americans are basically innumerate [1]. School is primarily childcare and most people forget the huge majority of what they were ever taught because they neither care about it nor use it. [1] https://phys.org/news/2018-03-high-adults-unable-basic-mathematical.amp https://phys.org/news/2018-03-high-adults-unable-basic-mathe...
- jstewartmobile 7y agoMy public school was teachers taking naps and complaining about their personal problems while feral inner city youths dry-humped to the smooth sounds of MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice. From the stats, I believe my experience is the rule rather than the exception. In that scenario, teaching “Brideshead Revisited,” AP Calculus, and the history of the Qing Dynasty to gifted children seems more like a cunning globalist scheme to suppress IQ through blunt force trauma.
- leshokunin 7y agoThere are better ways to keep a child engaged than by just giving them more school material. No matter what the material is, if they’re in a regular school, they’re going to get bored very quickly.