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Very true. Most people get measured by how much churn they create. The more the better. Even if it’s 100% correct for the business you are digging your own grav

Very true. Most people get measured by how much churn they create. The more the better. Even if it’s 100% correct for the business you are digging your own grave if you leave things the way they are.

MattGaiser 7y ago
I met these two mobile devs at a conference. They survived several rounds of cost-cutting at a large company by constantly convincing management to let them rewrite their mobile app in some new framework because of X. Start out with the native implementations, then they did Xamarin, tried PhoneGap, went back to native, then to React Native, and now on to Flutter. The pair of them keep their jobs constantly rewriting an app.
- Moru 7y ago
  Now and then frameworks does backwards incompatible changes so you might as well rewrite the app. If you continue with the old version of the framework you are stuck with either security holes, bugs or that google and apple changes something that downprioritize your app into oblivion. And if the UI/UX does not significantly change every 6 months, your users will give you one star reviews and "Old looking and ugly" comments. I don't envy app developers.
  - ativzzz 7y ago
    Yea if a framework makes breaking changes to the point where you can't upgrade your app, that seems like it could be a recurring problem so after the first rewrite you might as well learn native code and write it there.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - disqard 7y ago
      This is a lesson that consistently gets lost in the salivation over the latest SPA framework sexiness.
      - MattGaiser 7y ago
        Virtually nobody in software is incentivized to look at long term software costs. Startups need to move fast, project managers move on, devs need to keep their skills up to date to keep flipping jobs, and managers would need to become technical.
      - ativzzz 7y ago
        Disagreed, the vast majority of business problems with tech are solved with some form of CRUD which frameworks are perfect for. If your framework all of a sudden doesn't support your business needs either you didn't plan ahead well or your business simply outgrew it, which can happen once a business becomes complex enough.
userbinator 7y ago
Most, not all; if you have the right skills, you can find a comfortable job maintaining legacy code and (actually) improving it. Then again, most developers seem more interested in chasing new and shiny rather than polishing a stable system.
- InnerGargoyle 7y ago
  guide me brother how to get into this?
  - ativzzz 7y ago
    Apply to big non tech companies who probably run on older tech
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  " comfortable job maintaining legacy code " That's a very dangerous career path though. If that legacy system gets replaced you are usually out of a job and job search is hard with outdated skills.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    To give you an idea of how reluctant they are to replace things, some equipment in the manufacturing industry is over a century old and still in continuous use. They will certainly be extremely unwilling to get on the "upgrade treadmill" that seems to be getting faster these days. Also, problem solving and creative thinking are never outdated skills. ;-)
zipwitch 7y ago
This comment needs more upvotes. It's endemic to the software industry and far beyond. From employees who need to meet some arbitrary (and possibly unwritten) metric, to executives who are compelled to leave their mark on anything they touch, the number of people-years we waste on unnecessary churn has got to be staggering.

MattGaiser 7y ago

I met these two mobile devs at a conference. They survived several rounds of cost-cutting at a large company by constantly convincing management to let them rewrite their mobile app in some new framework because of X. Start out with the native implementations, then they did Xamarin, tried PhoneGap, went back to native, then to React Native, and now on to Flutter. The pair of them keep their jobs constantly rewriting an app.

Moru 7y ago
Now and then frameworks does backwards incompatible changes so you might as well rewrite the app. If you continue with the old version of the framework you are stuck with either security holes, bugs or that google and apple changes something that downprioritize your app into oblivion. And if the UI/UX does not significantly change every 6 months, your users will give you one star reviews and "Old looking and ugly" comments. I don't envy app developers.
- ativzzz 7y ago
  Yea if a framework makes breaking changes to the point where you can't upgrade your app, that seems like it could be a recurring problem so after the first rewrite you might as well learn native code and write it there.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - disqard 7y ago
    This is a lesson that consistently gets lost in the salivation over the latest SPA framework sexiness.
    - MattGaiser 7y ago
      Virtually nobody in software is incentivized to look at long term software costs. Startups need to move fast, project managers move on, devs need to keep their skills up to date to keep flipping jobs, and managers would need to become technical.
    - ativzzz 7y ago
      Disagreed, the vast majority of business problems with tech are solved with some form of CRUD which frameworks are perfect for. If your framework all of a sudden doesn't support your business needs either you didn't plan ahead well or your business simply outgrew it, which can happen once a business becomes complex enough.

userbinator 7y ago

Most, not all; if you have the right skills, you can find a comfortable job maintaining legacy code and (actually) improving it. Then again, most developers seem more interested in chasing new and shiny rather than polishing a stable system.

InnerGargoyle 7y ago
guide me brother how to get into this?
- ativzzz 7y ago
  Apply to big non tech companies who probably run on older tech
Ididntdothis 7y ago
" comfortable job maintaining legacy code " That's a very dangerous career path though. If that legacy system gets replaced you are usually out of a job and job search is hard with outdated skills.
- userbinator 7y ago
  To give you an idea of how reluctant they are to replace things, some equipment in the manufacturing industry is over a century old and still in continuous use. They will certainly be extremely unwilling to get on the "upgrade treadmill" that seems to be getting faster these days. Also, problem solving and creative thinking are never outdated skills. ;-)

zipwitch 7y ago

This comment needs more upvotes. It's endemic to the software industry and far beyond. From employees who need to meet some arbitrary (and possibly unwritten) metric, to executives who are compelled to leave their mark on anything they touch, the number of people-years we waste on unnecessary churn has got to be staggering.