4 ms·

Countries with larger safety nets have basically similar levels of absolute poverty to the US (it is kind of tricky because most of those countries in the forme

Countries with larger safety nets have basically similar levels of absolute poverty to the US (it is kind of tricky because most of those countries in the former are also far far smaller, and have very different population density/growth/migration patterns). And btw...yes, in other countries if you lose your job you can lose your house...this is true everywhere (and the US already has a public health system that is 50-75% of most of Europe)...that is kind of how mortgages and debt work. Saying that you wish you could just repudiate all your debt is very American (ironically, given that you seem to hold a non-American view of govt). The most effective way to move people out of poverty is to create jobs. Whatever system you have, the only way it goes wrong (as it did for Europe through most of the 90/2000s) is when you cannot create jobs. There is no other option. America has got it 95% right. And the main issue in the US is: are people willing to accept significant intervention into their working life from the govt? Are people willing to accept living in a society that is run for large corporations (it is funny that most Americans think they live there already, not even close)? Can the US bring immigration down significantly? Can the economy still function with lower immigration? Can the US still function with high prices of basic goods? The answer to almost all of those questions is no. America has a system that suits America...that is why they have it (and btw, if you talk to social policy academics from the countries with higher social safety nets, they will tell you the same thing). Maybe this is controversial now but it is far easier to suggest that we should tear everything down than work out how to make progress with something that is mostly working.

nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
I have lived in a country with universal healthcare. Never have I had more government intervention into my life than living in the US. Never have I been so worried about my civil rights being infringed than in the US. Never have I felt more controlled by large corporations in daily life. What does this have to do with immigration? The US already has a restrictive (and arcane) immigration system. You've just thrown an assortment of right-wing talking points together. > social policy academics from the countries with higher social safety nets, they will tell you the same thing You pulled this straight from your ass.
- hogFeast 7y ago
  Note that I said working life. Although your comment generally is incorrect too (this isn't even worth disproving tbh, just look at survey data). The great thing about the way large corporations control Europe is that you never hear about it (Germany is the classic example of this, massive wealth inequality, large number of billionaires, they are basically invisible). But the social security system in Europe was designed by large corporations (). Immigration has everything to do with social policy. It also has everything to do with politics generally. Nope. I have an MSc in Politics and studied comparative European social policy. I have met these academics. To cut a long story short: Esping-Andersen's Three Worlds Of Capitalism determines the context of this debate. And the key point of that book is: historical context is everything, you can't understand the totality of social policy by looking at one thing in isolation, and you certainly can't look at what another country is doing and say "we need to do that"...it just makes no sense (a good example of this is the changes that Sweden has made: despite the severity of their crisis, they worked out what they did well and built on that). I know expertise isn't fashionable rn, but you should read what people who have studied this their whole life are saying...as opposed to just believing what you feel. I love HN. I don't think there is any other place on the internet that has so many people who are both totally ignorant but believe they understand almost everything very very well. Classic engineer mindset.
  - nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
    > Note that I said working life. Although your comment generally is incorrect too (this isn't even worth disproving tbh, just look at survey data). How obtuse are you? Of course I'm talking about working life. Survey data just reflects peoples' indoctrination anyway and getting anything through a dense American's head is nearly impossible if it involves imaginary 'freedom'. Makes sense when you fuck the whole world with imperialism, gotta justify it somehow. > as opposed to just believing what you feel. I've spent plenty of time reading 'serious' academics across all kinds of ideological lines. Esping-Andersen is not an absolute authority. America is still pathetic and broken no matter how you twist it. And yes, Europe is bad and we should off their billionaires too, not sure what you expect from me there. > I love HN. I don't think there is any other place on the internet that has so many people who are both totally ignorant but believe they understand almost everything very very well. Classic engineer mindset. And you're a bootlicking shit that is throating a combination of right-wing immigration policy and neoliberalism, so?

nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago

I have lived in a country with universal healthcare. Never have I had more government intervention into my life than living in the US. Never have I been so worried about my civil rights being infringed than in the US. Never have I felt more controlled by large corporations in daily life. What does this have to do with immigration? The US already has a restrictive (and arcane) immigration system. You've just thrown an assortment of right-wing talking points together. > social policy academics from the countries with higher social safety nets, they will tell you the same thing You pulled this straight from your ass.

hogFeast 7y ago
Note that I said working life. Although your comment generally is incorrect too (this isn't even worth disproving tbh, just look at survey data). The great thing about the way large corporations control Europe is that you never hear about it (Germany is the classic example of this, massive wealth inequality, large number of billionaires, they are basically invisible). But the social security system in Europe was designed by large corporations (). Immigration has everything to do with social policy. It also has everything to do with politics generally. Nope. I have an MSc in Politics and studied comparative European social policy. I have met these academics. To cut a long story short: Esping-Andersen's Three Worlds Of Capitalism determines the context of this debate. And the key point of that book is: historical context is everything, you can't understand the totality of social policy by looking at one thing in isolation, and you certainly can't look at what another country is doing and say "we need to do that"...it just makes no sense (a good example of this is the changes that Sweden has made: despite the severity of their crisis, they worked out what they did well and built on that). I know expertise isn't fashionable rn, but you should read what people who have studied this their whole life are saying...as opposed to just believing what you feel. I love HN. I don't think there is any other place on the internet that has so many people who are both totally ignorant but believe they understand almost everything very very well. Classic engineer mindset.
- nlfwhulsdhouv 7y ago
  > Note that I said working life. Although your comment generally is incorrect too (this isn't even worth disproving tbh, just look at survey data). How obtuse are you? Of course I'm talking about working life. Survey data just reflects peoples' indoctrination anyway and getting anything through a dense American's head is nearly impossible if it involves imaginary 'freedom'. Makes sense when you fuck the whole world with imperialism, gotta justify it somehow. > as opposed to just believing what you feel. I've spent plenty of time reading 'serious' academics across all kinds of ideological lines. Esping-Andersen is not an absolute authority. America is still pathetic and broken no matter how you twist it. And yes, Europe is bad and we should off their billionaires too, not sure what you expect from me there. > I love HN. I don't think there is any other place on the internet that has so many people who are both totally ignorant but believe they understand almost everything very very well. Classic engineer mindset. And you're a bootlicking shit that is throating a combination of right-wing immigration policy and neoliberalism, so?