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I've cancelled any and all memberships, subscriptions, etc. with Amazon and anything they own, and I'm no longer ordering anything from them. It's completely un

I've cancelled any and all memberships, subscriptions, etc. with Amazon and anything they own, and I'm no longer ordering anything from them. It's completely unacceptable to treat workers this way, even if Bezos weren't the richest person on earth. Which he is! So on top of treating people like disposable garbage, he controls a plurality of the world's resources and refuses to mobilize any of them to help his workers.

enitihas 7y ago
Where do you buy from? Only local small business or someplace which pays even less than Amazon to their workers?
- danaliv 7y ago
  This isn't about how much people are paid.
  - enitihas 7y ago
    So do you have another metric which can be compared across companies objectively? Or is it okay to soak the feel good by boycotting a company even if it means choosing worse ones?
pnw_hazor 7y ago
Almost every business in the developed world relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Any manufacturer that sells parts or replacement parts relies on pickers. Every grocery store chain or department store chain relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Small outlets rely on distributors that rely on warehouse workers and pickers. Just about everything people use, eat, ride, drive, or wear relies on warehouse workers. Most non-Amazon warehouse workers are treated worse and paid less than Amazon employees. If you hate Amazon so be it, but hating them for the way they treat their warehouse workers and pickers is not rational unless you hate just about every modern business equally.
- danaliv 7y ago
  "Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
  - exolymph 7y ago
    > I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong. You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.
    - enitihas 7y ago
      Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
      - Apocryphon 7y ago
        Try this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmart-for-groceries-household-essentials_l_5e820705c5b6cb9dc1a42f98 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...
    - danaliv 7y ago
      "Labor rights veganism" isn't the goal. You seem to be suggesting that unless someone can achieve ethical perfection, there's no point in doing anything. I don't agree with that. You also seem to be applying black-and-white thinking to problems of right and wrong. Some things are more wrong than others. On a scale from "single mother cheating on her taxes so she can feed her kids" to "cold-blooded murder," Amazon is (in my opinion) beating puppies with sticks. When someone does something not just wrong, but inexcusable, and is unapologetic, I don't say to myself, "well, lots of other people have done/do bad things." I doubt you do either.
yibg 7y ago
What are some of the place you buy from that treats their workers better?
misun78 7y ago
The irony in you typing this from most likely an iPhone/Android/PC made in China by factory workers under conditions far far worse than Amazon is quite palpable.
- r00fus 7y ago
  A bit of whataboutism never hurts the argument I guess...
blablabla123 7y ago
Yup, and there are tons of alternatives. Maybe sometimes it's not obvious for instance where to get some movies or order certain stuff. But a bit searching often pays off and sometimes reveals even more interesting places where to buy things. (I wish AWS wasn't that popular though...)
- r00fus 7y ago
  I try to avoid Amazon when it's feasible. Care to list alternatives worth mentioning? Google express/shopping was great until it really just fell off a cliff a year or two ago.
  - blablabla123 7y ago
    For Video on demand apart from iTunes, Netflix there are plenty of niche websites especially for art house movies, criterionchannel.com is probably the largest though. And for the German market for example there is book delivery from thalia.de which can deliver via mail or to a book shop. (And momox.de for used book buy/sell - I stopped selling books on Amazon years ago because it's just too much effort, Momox has a simple bulk preparation)
    - r00fus 7y ago
      Thanks but I'm more concerned about daily basics and groceries - both areas where Amazon is recently ascendant.
      - blablabla123 7y ago
        Yeah ok, not sure about that. I basically try the online shopping functions that the supermarket/drug store chains offer that I would normally enjoy visiting in person. (But I have to plan in advance for that) Also I'm trying Hello Fresh soon. But I mean when there is no other alternative, it would probably be exaggerated to not buy at Amazon in the current situation...

enitihas 7y ago

Where do you buy from? Only local small business or someplace which pays even less than Amazon to their workers?

danaliv 7y ago
This isn't about how much people are paid.
- enitihas 7y ago
  So do you have another metric which can be compared across companies objectively? Or is it okay to soak the feel good by boycotting a company even if it means choosing worse ones?

pnw_hazor 7y ago

Almost every business in the developed world relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Any manufacturer that sells parts or replacement parts relies on pickers. Every grocery store chain or department store chain relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Small outlets rely on distributors that rely on warehouse workers and pickers. Just about everything people use, eat, ride, drive, or wear relies on warehouse workers. Most non-Amazon warehouse workers are treated worse and paid less than Amazon employees. If you hate Amazon so be it, but hating them for the way they treat their warehouse workers and pickers is not rational unless you hate just about every modern business equally.

danaliv 7y ago
"Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
- exolymph 7y ago
  > I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong. You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.
  - enitihas 7y ago
    Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      Try this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmart-for-groceries-household-essentials_l_5e820705c5b6cb9dc1a42f98 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...
  - danaliv 7y ago
    "Labor rights veganism" isn't the goal. You seem to be suggesting that unless someone can achieve ethical perfection, there's no point in doing anything. I don't agree with that. You also seem to be applying black-and-white thinking to problems of right and wrong. Some things are more wrong than others. On a scale from "single mother cheating on her taxes so she can feed her kids" to "cold-blooded murder," Amazon is (in my opinion) beating puppies with sticks. When someone does something not just wrong, but inexcusable, and is unapologetic, I don't say to myself, "well, lots of other people have done/do bad things." I doubt you do either.

yibg 7y ago

What are some of the place you buy from that treats their workers better?

misun78 7y ago

The irony in you typing this from most likely an iPhone/Android/PC made in China by factory workers under conditions far far worse than Amazon is quite palpable.

r00fus 7y ago
A bit of whataboutism never hurts the argument I guess...

blablabla123 7y ago

Yup, and there are tons of alternatives. Maybe sometimes it's not obvious for instance where to get some movies or order certain stuff. But a bit searching often pays off and sometimes reveals even more interesting places where to buy things. (I wish AWS wasn't that popular though...)

r00fus 7y ago
I try to avoid Amazon when it's feasible. Care to list alternatives worth mentioning? Google express/shopping was great until it really just fell off a cliff a year or two ago.
- blablabla123 7y ago
  For Video on demand apart from iTunes, Netflix there are plenty of niche websites especially for art house movies, criterionchannel.com is probably the largest though. And for the German market for example there is book delivery from thalia.de which can deliver via mail or to a book shop. (And momox.de for used book buy/sell - I stopped selling books on Amazon years ago because it's just too much effort, Momox has a simple bulk preparation)
  - r00fus 7y ago
    Thanks but I'm more concerned about daily basics and groceries - both areas where Amazon is recently ascendant.
    - blablabla123 7y ago
      Yeah ok, not sure about that. I basically try the online shopping functions that the supermarket/drug store chains offer that I would normally enjoy visiting in person. (But I have to plan in advance for that) Also I'm trying Hello Fresh soon. But I mean when there is no other alternative, it would probably be exaggerated to not buy at Amazon in the current situation...