9 ms·

The treatment of warehouse workers and of people with different non office jobs is a strong reason why I will never work at a place like Amazon or Walmart. Gla

The treatment of warehouse workers and of people with different non office jobs is a strong reason why I will never work at a place like Amazon or Walmart. Glad to see some people sticking up for each other in these times especially.

whatshisface 7y ago
Out of curiosity, do you shop at places like either?
- erehweb 7y ago
  Check out the Mr. Gotcha cartoon, if you haven't seen it - https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
enitihas 7y ago
What are your preferred places for work?
danaliv 7y ago
I've cancelled any and all memberships, subscriptions, etc. with Amazon and anything they own, and I'm no longer ordering anything from them. It's completely unacceptable to treat workers this way, even if Bezos weren't the richest person on earth. Which he is! So on top of treating people like disposable garbage, he controls a plurality of the world's resources and refuses to mobilize any of them to help his workers.
- enitihas 7y ago
  Where do you buy from? Only local small business or someplace which pays even less than Amazon to their workers?
  - danaliv 7y ago
    This isn't about how much people are paid.
    - enitihas 7y ago
      So do you have another metric which can be compared across companies objectively? Or is it okay to soak the feel good by boycotting a company even if it means choosing worse ones?
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  Almost every business in the developed world relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Any manufacturer that sells parts or replacement parts relies on pickers. Every grocery store chain or department store chain relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Small outlets rely on distributors that rely on warehouse workers and pickers. Just about everything people use, eat, ride, drive, or wear relies on warehouse workers. Most non-Amazon warehouse workers are treated worse and paid less than Amazon employees. If you hate Amazon so be it, but hating them for the way they treat their warehouse workers and pickers is not rational unless you hate just about every modern business equally.
  - danaliv 7y ago
    "Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
    - exolymph 7y ago
      > I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong. You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.
      - enitihas 7y ago
        Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
        Apocryphon 7y ago
        Try this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmart-for-groceries-household-essentials_l_5e820705c5b6cb9dc1a42f98 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...
- yibg 7y ago
  What are some of the place you buy from that treats their workers better?
- misun78 7y ago
  The irony in you typing this from most likely an iPhone/Android/PC made in China by factory workers under conditions far far worse than Amazon is quite palpable.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    A bit of whataboutism never hurts the argument I guess...
- blablabla123 7y ago
  Yup, and there are tons of alternatives. Maybe sometimes it's not obvious for instance where to get some movies or order certain stuff. But a bit searching often pays off and sometimes reveals even more interesting places where to buy things. (I wish AWS wasn't that popular though...)
  - r00fus 7y ago
    I try to avoid Amazon when it's feasible. Care to list alternatives worth mentioning? Google express/shopping was great until it really just fell off a cliff a year or two ago.
    - blablabla123 7y ago
      For Video on demand apart from iTunes, Netflix there are plenty of niche websites especially for art house movies, criterionchannel.com is probably the largest though. And for the German market for example there is book delivery from thalia.de which can deliver via mail or to a book shop. (And momox.de for used book buy/sell - I stopped selling books on Amazon years ago because it's just too much effort, Momox has a simple bulk preparation)
      - r00fus 7y ago
        Thanks but I'm more concerned about daily basics and groceries - both areas where Amazon is recently ascendant.
        blablabla123 7y ago
        Yeah ok, not sure about that. I basically try the online shopping functions that the supermarket/drug store chains offer that I would normally enjoy visiting in person. (But I have to plan in advance for that) Also I'm trying Hello Fresh soon. But I mean when there is no other alternative, it would probably be exaggerated to not buy at Amazon in the current situation...
txcwpalpha 7y ago
Amazon warehouse workers get $17/hr starting wage (and a full 2x ($34/hr!!) overtime), with no experience/education needed and almost no barrier to getting the job (except physical capability to lift a box), as well as the best health insurance I've ever heard of entry-level manual laborers getting, as well as education budgets to be used on any higher level education they want. Obviously warehouse work isn't glamorous and they are under a lot of pressure and there's nothing wrong with increased scrutiny on how they are treated, but it's also getting exhausting when people act like Amazon FC workers are treated like slaves.
- dbg31415 7y ago
  Spot on. Amazon was able to hire over 100k employees in the last month. They did that by providing the best possible choice for those people -- the people wanted to work there. Sure, all for transparency, but let's be real. This job is a lot better than flipping burgers or mowing a road ditch. People are still lining up to work at Amazon. It's easy to be like, "Hey look at the big evil company!" but the truth of the matter is Amazon is one of the best places for low-skilled workers to find employment.
  - 908087 7y ago
    "Sure, the bread I'm handing out is moldy.. but these people who have been starving to death are still lining up to eat it!"
- elliekelly 7y ago
  IMO it isn’t really relevant how much they’re paid or what the educational requirements. It’s never okay to treat people the way Amazon treats warehouse workers. If you (and the government) consider your business “essential” you simply have to take appropriate precautions to protect the health and safety of those people who are carrying out essential duties. I understand there are supply shortages around the world but Amazon isn’t even trying to make a good faith effort to protect their people. They’re doing the opposite, it seems. Fighting their employees every step of the way.
  - 7y ago
throwawaysea 7y ago
What are you even talking about? Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum (double federal minimum wage), with benefits, with double overtime pay. This is for totally unskilled and undifferentiated labor. Among warehouse jobs, Amazon is industry leading in wages. Walmart pays, I believe, a minimum of $11/hour. If people don't want to work in either of these places, they don't have to. It's a voluntary system. But clearly people want to work there and prefer that to the challenge of (for example) starting their own business. I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. Their blog mentions many of these changes and the seem reasonable and practical: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-prioritizes-health-and-safety-while-fulfilling-customer-orders https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit.... Obviously, there are limits to what a company can do with a physical operation like this. There are limits to the distancing that can be practiced. Equipment like PPEs are facing huge shortages right now and so obviously it isn't reasonable to expect that Amazon magically can summon up hundreds of thousands of N95 masks that should likely be going to healthcare workers first. Ultimately, if people don't want to take the risk of working during this time, that's up to them - they are free to leave voluntarily. All this outrage seems falsely amplified, and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda.
- Mtinie 7y ago
  "[...]and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda." That may be true, though I suspect it's equally plausible that this outrage is indicative of a nakedly capitalistic agenda promoted by Amazon's competitors via proxies. I don't see any reason why it can't be both. Edit: To clarify, I should have ended my statement with "...why it can't be both, in addition to legitimate concerns."
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  >Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum Until the end of April, when the $2 per hour "bonus" goes away. >I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. It does appear that employees are not being punished for things like adequately washing their hands or getting sick for the time being. They were being punished for these things at the start of the year, and that blog makes it sound like they will be punished for them again when the pandemic is over.

whatshisface 7y ago

Out of curiosity, do you shop at places like either?

erehweb 7y ago
Check out the Mr. Gotcha cartoon, if you haven't seen it - https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

enitihas 7y ago

What are your preferred places for work?

danaliv 7y ago

I've cancelled any and all memberships, subscriptions, etc. with Amazon and anything they own, and I'm no longer ordering anything from them. It's completely unacceptable to treat workers this way, even if Bezos weren't the richest person on earth. Which he is! So on top of treating people like disposable garbage, he controls a plurality of the world's resources and refuses to mobilize any of them to help his workers.

enitihas 7y ago
Where do you buy from? Only local small business or someplace which pays even less than Amazon to their workers?
- danaliv 7y ago
  This isn't about how much people are paid.
  - enitihas 7y ago
    So do you have another metric which can be compared across companies objectively? Or is it okay to soak the feel good by boycotting a company even if it means choosing worse ones?
pnw_hazor 7y ago
Almost every business in the developed world relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Any manufacturer that sells parts or replacement parts relies on pickers. Every grocery store chain or department store chain relies on warehouse workers and pickers. Small outlets rely on distributors that rely on warehouse workers and pickers. Just about everything people use, eat, ride, drive, or wear relies on warehouse workers. Most non-Amazon warehouse workers are treated worse and paid less than Amazon employees. If you hate Amazon so be it, but hating them for the way they treat their warehouse workers and pickers is not rational unless you hate just about every modern business equally.
- danaliv 7y ago
  "Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
  - exolymph 7y ago
    > I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong. You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.
    - enitihas 7y ago
      Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
      - Apocryphon 7y ago
        Try this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmart-for-groceries-household-essentials_l_5e820705c5b6cb9dc1a42f98 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...
yibg 7y ago
What are some of the place you buy from that treats their workers better?
misun78 7y ago
The irony in you typing this from most likely an iPhone/Android/PC made in China by factory workers under conditions far far worse than Amazon is quite palpable.
- r00fus 7y ago
  A bit of whataboutism never hurts the argument I guess...
blablabla123 7y ago
Yup, and there are tons of alternatives. Maybe sometimes it's not obvious for instance where to get some movies or order certain stuff. But a bit searching often pays off and sometimes reveals even more interesting places where to buy things. (I wish AWS wasn't that popular though...)
- r00fus 7y ago
  I try to avoid Amazon when it's feasible. Care to list alternatives worth mentioning? Google express/shopping was great until it really just fell off a cliff a year or two ago.
  - blablabla123 7y ago
    For Video on demand apart from iTunes, Netflix there are plenty of niche websites especially for art house movies, criterionchannel.com is probably the largest though. And for the German market for example there is book delivery from thalia.de which can deliver via mail or to a book shop. (And momox.de for used book buy/sell - I stopped selling books on Amazon years ago because it's just too much effort, Momox has a simple bulk preparation)
    - r00fus 7y ago
      Thanks but I'm more concerned about daily basics and groceries - both areas where Amazon is recently ascendant.
      - blablabla123 7y ago
        Yeah ok, not sure about that. I basically try the online shopping functions that the supermarket/drug store chains offer that I would normally enjoy visiting in person. (But I have to plan in advance for that) Also I'm trying Hello Fresh soon. But I mean when there is no other alternative, it would probably be exaggerated to not buy at Amazon in the current situation...

txcwpalpha 7y ago

Amazon warehouse workers get $17/hr starting wage (and a full 2x ($34/hr!!) overtime), with no experience/education needed and almost no barrier to getting the job (except physical capability to lift a box), as well as the best health insurance I've ever heard of entry-level manual laborers getting, as well as education budgets to be used on any higher level education they want. Obviously warehouse work isn't glamorous and they are under a lot of pressure and there's nothing wrong with increased scrutiny on how they are treated, but it's also getting exhausting when people act like Amazon FC workers are treated like slaves.

dbg31415 7y ago
Spot on. Amazon was able to hire over 100k employees in the last month. They did that by providing the best possible choice for those people -- the people wanted to work there. Sure, all for transparency, but let's be real. This job is a lot better than flipping burgers or mowing a road ditch. People are still lining up to work at Amazon. It's easy to be like, "Hey look at the big evil company!" but the truth of the matter is Amazon is one of the best places for low-skilled workers to find employment.
- 908087 7y ago
  "Sure, the bread I'm handing out is moldy.. but these people who have been starving to death are still lining up to eat it!"
elliekelly 7y ago
IMO it isn’t really relevant how much they’re paid or what the educational requirements. It’s never okay to treat people the way Amazon treats warehouse workers. If you (and the government) consider your business “essential” you simply have to take appropriate precautions to protect the health and safety of those people who are carrying out essential duties. I understand there are supply shortages around the world but Amazon isn’t even trying to make a good faith effort to protect their people. They’re doing the opposite, it seems. Fighting their employees every step of the way.
- 7y ago

throwawaysea 7y ago

What are you even talking about? Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum (double federal minimum wage), with benefits, with double overtime pay. This is for totally unskilled and undifferentiated labor. Among warehouse jobs, Amazon is industry leading in wages. Walmart pays, I believe, a minimum of $11/hour. If people don't want to work in either of these places, they don't have to. It's a voluntary system. But clearly people want to work there and prefer that to the challenge of (for example) starting their own business. I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. Their blog mentions many of these changes and the seem reasonable and practical: https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-prioritizes-health-and-safety-while-fulfilling-customer-orders https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/how-amazon-priorit.... Obviously, there are limits to what a company can do with a physical operation like this. There are limits to the distancing that can be practiced. Equipment like PPEs are facing huge shortages right now and so obviously it isn't reasonable to expect that Amazon magically can summon up hundreds of thousands of N95 masks that should likely be going to healthcare workers first. Ultimately, if people don't want to take the risk of working during this time, that's up to them - they are free to leave voluntarily. All this outrage seems falsely amplified, and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda.

Mtinie 7y ago
"[...]and it comes off as opportunistic activism to leverage this crisis to push a nakedly leftist political agenda." That may be true, though I suspect it's equally plausible that this outrage is indicative of a nakedly capitalistic agenda promoted by Amazon's competitors via proxies. I don't see any reason why it can't be both. Edit: To clarify, I should have ended my statement with "...why it can't be both, in addition to legitimate concerns."
boomboomsubban 7y ago
>Amazon is paying them $17 an hour at minimum Until the end of April, when the $2 per hour "bonus" goes away. >I also do not believe that there were no changes made at Amazon's warehouses in response to the coronavirus. It does appear that employees are not being punished for things like adequately washing their hands or getting sick for the time being. They were being punished for these things at the start of the year, and that blog makes it sound like they will be punished for them again when the pandemic is over.