4 ms·

I disagree. I think he mentions a really valid point. Getting users to upgrade from IE6 is good thing, but it's even better to upgrade to Firefox or Chrome inst

by alexyim 16y ago

I disagree. I think he mentions a really valid point. Getting users to upgrade from IE6 is good thing, but it's even better to upgrade to Firefox or Chrome instead of IE8.

coderdude 16y ago
How is that a valid point? In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Even if it's good for the users, it's their users, and it's entirely logical for them to want to keep them.
- alexyim 16y ago
  Ah I see. And I agree with that. I meant he raises a good point on whether (from a web developer's perspective) you should use this Microsoft banner at all.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandoning MeeGo will improve Nokia's). As it is, Microsoft does whatever benefits them, regardless of how much it does hurt everybody else.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it." >Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line Are you just anti-Microsoft trolling? This doesn't follow any kind of logic. "They would sure benefit from having millions of users not use their Web browser." What?
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - ElliotH 16y ago
      Some of the least technically inclined people I know massively prefer Chrome to Internet Explorer. Chrome has a noticeable speed advantage, nags less and within an hours casual use it has their favorite sites one click away when they open the browser. These are all noticeable improvements, even to users who couldn't care less about web standards.
      - Macha 16y ago
        It's also much easier to sell Chrome than, e.g. Firefox. My current browser of choice is Firefox 4, but whenever I'm setting up someone's computer, I give them Chrome. If I gave them Firefox, they'll have the attitude of "I want the old one back!". For chrome however, they already use Google, so they're happy using "Google" to view other pages. And while I worry a little about Possibly accidentally creating a Google = the Internet opinion in them, transparent automatic updates prevent this having consequences like the IE = the Internet attitude others have.
        rbanffy 16y ago
        > Possibly accidentally creating a Google = the Internet opinion Well... At least they have a "don't be evil" in their corporate values. ;-)
    - neutronicus 16y ago
      I tried to get my open source-hostile roomate to care about firefox for a year and a half and he never gave a shit, and then one day he downloaded Chrome and never looked back. Something about how it had the most room for the page.
- spjwebster 16y ago
  In the same (not so) alternate universe where Microsoft offer you the choice of a host of browsers when you first launch IE? And just because it's the logical thing for them to do, it doesn't mean it's a good idea for our industry.
  - rbarooah 16y ago
    That choice was forced on them by regulators. They didn't choose it. The parent said that he didn't think it was best for our industry, but that it wouldn't be in Microsoft's best interest to do it. Does Microsoft believe it's in the industry's best interest to recommend other browsers? I doubt it. My guess is that they still believe in their own vision of the future and want to keep their customers so they have a chance to build it.

by alexyim 16y ago

I disagree. I think he mentions a really valid point. Getting users to upgrade from IE6 is good thing, but it's even better to upgrade to Firefox or Chrome instead of IE8.

coderdude 16y ago

How is that a valid point? In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Even if it's good for the users, it's their users, and it's entirely logical for them to want to keep them.

alexyim 16y ago
Ah I see. And I agree with that. I meant he raises a good point on whether (from a web developer's perspective) you should use this Microsoft banner at all.
rbanffy 16y ago
> In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandoning MeeGo will improve Nokia's). As it is, Microsoft does whatever benefits them, regardless of how much it does hurt everybody else.
- coderdude 16y ago
  The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it." >Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line Are you just anti-Microsoft trolling? This doesn't follow any kind of logic. "They would sure benefit from having millions of users not use their Web browser." What?
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - ElliotH 16y ago
    Some of the least technically inclined people I know massively prefer Chrome to Internet Explorer. Chrome has a noticeable speed advantage, nags less and within an hours casual use it has their favorite sites one click away when they open the browser. These are all noticeable improvements, even to users who couldn't care less about web standards.
    - Macha 16y ago
      It's also much easier to sell Chrome than, e.g. Firefox. My current browser of choice is Firefox 4, but whenever I'm setting up someone's computer, I give them Chrome. If I gave them Firefox, they'll have the attitude of "I want the old one back!". For chrome however, they already use Google, so they're happy using "Google" to view other pages. And while I worry a little about Possibly accidentally creating a Google = the Internet opinion in them, transparent automatic updates prevent this having consequences like the IE = the Internet attitude others have.
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        > Possibly accidentally creating a Google = the Internet opinion Well... At least they have a "don't be evil" in their corporate values. ;-)
  - neutronicus 16y ago
    I tried to get my open source-hostile roomate to care about firefox for a year and a half and he never gave a shit, and then one day he downloaded Chrome and never looked back. Something about how it had the most room for the page.
spjwebster 16y ago
In the same (not so) alternate universe where Microsoft offer you the choice of a host of browsers when you first launch IE? And just because it's the logical thing for them to do, it doesn't mean it's a good idea for our industry.
- rbarooah 16y ago
  That choice was forced on them by regulators. They didn't choose it. The parent said that he didn't think it was best for our industry, but that it wouldn't be in Microsoft's best interest to do it. Does Microsoft believe it's in the industry's best interest to recommend other browsers? I doubt it. My guess is that they still believe in their own vision of the future and want to keep their customers so they have a chance to build it.